The C0uncil 0f Trent

[Anonymous Aristotle]

3 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Who determines what is essential doctrine and what is not? Can you give me the scripture passage that lists them?

Happy to oblige. Thank you for asking. Link

As a point of reference and to support context concerning the act of the Council of Trent:

• Quote

   

  • "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema," (Canon 9, Council of Trent).
  • "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema," (Canon 14, Council of Trent).
  • For more on this, please see Council of Trent. Canons on Justification.

   

God knows the heart and does know who are truly his sons and daughters.  However, the earthly decree of the Council of Trent under its authority vacated the teachings of Christ so as to uphold the doctrine Jesus set forth pertaining to those that would follow in his steps while on earth representing his good news.

 

[Anonymous Aristotle]

5 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I fully agree and so does the Catholic Church. 

Not the Roman Catholic church. 

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/966.htm

Catechism 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:   In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.

 

 

 

Quote

 

AD DIEM ILLUM LAETISSIMUM

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X
ON THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION
TO THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES, ARCHBISHOPS,
BISHOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE

 14. We are then, it will be seen, very far from attributing to the Mother of God a productive power of grace - a power which belongs to God alone. Yet, since Mary carries it over all in holiness and union with Jesus Christ, and has been associated by Jesus Christ in the work of redemption, she merits for us de congruo, in the language of theologians, what Jesus Christ merits for us de condigno, and she is the supreme Minister of the distribution of graces. Jesus "sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high" (Hebrews i. b.). Mary sitteth at the right hand of her Son - a refuge so secure and a help so trusty against all dangers that we have nothing to fear or to despair of under her guidance, her patronage, her protection. (Pius IX. in Bull Ineffabilis).

http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

 

 

 

 

 

Pope Leo XIII Encyclical says, 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

29 minutes ago, Davida said:

No you don't agree. You don't admit it is WORSHIP.  THAT is being dishonest in your statement.

You don't get to judge what I do internally especially when you refuse to even define the terms you are using. 

[simplejeff]

15 minutes ago, Davida said:

Please, I don't have to see inside you.  What the RCC does with Mary is IDOL Worship - You justify it so , there we have it.

Amein.  Mariology , by definition and by practice, before the church ever started it, and ever since,

is idolatry.  There was never a time when it was not.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

16 minutes ago, Davida said:

Please, I don't have to see inside you.  What the RCC does with Mary is IDOL Worship - You justify it so , there we have it.

Define worship or are you just interested in trolling and not discussing

[simplejeff]

11 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Define worship or are you just interested in trolling and not discussing

Idolatrous serving of idols opposed to God's Word is trolling/ defiled/  sinful.

Those who commit idolatry, if they do not repent, perish.

Those who commit idolatry, if they do not repent, often defend idolatry as trolls.  No new news there.

No reply to trolls is necessary,  except as God directs. 

[Anonymous Aristotle]

15 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Define worship or are you just interested in trolling and not discussing

 

I think any Christian knows what worship is defined as. Avoiding the discussion itself in order to lob challenges for individuals committed to Christ to define basic terms associated with the Christian faith, in order to avoid addressing the factors, such as Mary idolized as the co-redemtrix with Jesus,  brought forth and demonstrating with RCC proofs themselves, and links,  and that show the RCC does not comport with the essential doctrine that defines the teachings of Jesus, and the faith in Christ,  constitutes trolling. 

[Anonymous Aristotle]

9 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Idolatrous serving of idols opposed to God's Word is trolling/ defiled/  sinful.

Those who commit idolatry, if they do not repent, perish.

Those who commit idolatry, if they do not repent, often defend idolatry as trolls.  No new news there.

No reply to trolls is necessary,  except as God directs. 

1 Corinthians 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

The RCC teachings concerning Mary exceed what is written as God's inspired word. 

 

[simplejeff]

7 minutes ago, Anonymous Aristotle said:

1 Corinthians 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

The RCC teachings concerning Mary exceed what is written as God's inspired word. 

 

Right - no argument here - not only do they exceed God's Word,  they oppose it always, their practices and indulgences and doctrines and teachings are often directly opposed to God's Word, and likewise of course contrary to God's Spirit , God's Purpose, God's Salvation.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

21 minutes ago, Anonymous Aristotle said:

 

I think any Christian knows what worship is defined as. Avoiding the discussion itself in order to lob challenges for individuals committed to Christ to define basic terms associated with the Christian faith, in order to avoid addressing the factors, such as Mary idolized as the co-redemtrix with Jesus,  brought forth and demonstrating with RCC proofs themselves, and links,  and that show the RCC does not comport with the essential doctrine that defines the teachings of Jesus, and the faith in Christ,  constitutes trolling. 

AA perhaps you should pay closer attention to the conversation between David and I. 

David didn't provide links or even a defense to his accusations. He refused to define worship and continued to accuse me of Mary worship. He is not engaging in conversation just spewing his unproven accusations. 

YOU on the other hand have engaged in discussion and have used links (which I'll address when I get home) to support your position. I also did not ask YOU if you are more interested in trolling I asked David. I embrace disagreement and challenges but I will not tolerate someone that just wants to spew tag lines they've heard from anti-Catholics and refuse to back them up and defend them. They just get added to my ignore list and I brush the dust off my feet and move on.  I have engaged in numerous discussions with those that disagree with me and have enjoyed the two way discussions. The discussions will eventually get to the point where both parties agree to disagree. Buts it's got to be a two way conversation.

again to properly address all the things you brought up I would like to do it from my laptop so once I get home I will address your posts. Oh and extra points for you for going to the Vatican website to back up your position... respect!!

Cheers