Masterpiece Cakeshop Is Fighting For The First Amendment, Not Against Gay Marriage

[Guest]

On 6/29/2017 at 6:31 PM, ayin jade said:

Hmm I practice my religion all the time. My beliefs govern my actions (mostly, unless, for example, someone cuts me off in traffic in which case I sometimes say things I shouldnt). Any Christian will try to follow what the Lord wishes all the time. If the baker believes that it is against his practice of his religion to make such a cake, then the feds are interfering with the practice of his religion. 

"Hmm I practice my religion all the time. My beliefs govern my actions (mostly, unless, for example, someone cuts me off in traffic in which case I sometimes say things I shouldnt)"  

You naughty naughty sinner. Just teasin ya sista

[Guest]

I thought I would post this as it is evident that many have eaten of the "twisted version" pervading the USA these days.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

[Flowerwater]

23 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

He is not BAKING  cakes he would be  making a declaration of support for SSM .

You have barely come onto this site, and you are telling people what you think they should be, to be a Christian . Modesty , patience ,learning before  assuming  ?

We are not talking remember, about being homosexual ,but about the mirage of SSM., which is not the same . If Jesus mixed with prostitutes etc , it was to heal them , and for that they had to repent ,but for some  that is bigoted ,and very out of date .

I admit I don't understand that first sentence you have there. 

How long do I have to be a member to recognize what Christ taught and speak of it here? 
 

We're talking about being homosexual and entering into marriage. Remember, this isn't God ordained marriage we're speaking of. No, not at all. This is marriage licensed under the tenets of, to put it in parlance as pertains to the era of scripture, Caesar. 
Marriage licenses are issued by the secular state, not the church. Secular state laws and protections apply. 
One reason many Christian activist groups argued against the legalization of gay marriage is because the definition of marriage was ordained by God. And God says homosexuality is an abomination. The unrepentant sinner homosexual is condemned and shall not enter heaven. 

That is all true.

However, that argument failed and the supreme court legalized under the 14th amendment gay's entering into state marriage contracts. 

Because those are issued by the secular state. And all the state and federal privileges come with. 

That wedding cake a gay couple seeks to have made is sought to be purchased from a person, not a Christian, a person, who entered into a license contract with the state they opened their business in. There too they're subject to all the rules, laws, and privileges, that come with. 

That's why this baker is going to lose. America is highly populated by Christians, yes. But it is a secular nation. Not a Christian governed nation. 

Jesus said, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. And unto God that which is God's. 
When it comes to a choice, serve God rather than man. 

This baker licensed under Caesar. There are ways he can remain faithful to his beliefs and still operate as a bakery. But to think he will have the legal right to refuse to bake wedding cakes for gay customers, when he offers wedding cakes as a baker, is not only wrong but is a lesson in law he's going to learn at great expense. 

If he doesn't want to create wedding cakes for gays, and he would never know if a gay couple ordered a cake with everything but the topper, then he will have to not bake wedding cakes. Which will cause his bottom line gross to take a big hit. Because bakeries make their largest quarterly earnings during what is typically called , wedding season. Spring, summer months. 

And if he doesn't make wedding cakes at all because he refuses to serve gays, he'll still be violating what he claims is his religious conscience when he serves all manner of sinner, including gays who don't want wedding cakes. Religious conscience isn't elective. This baker unfortunately appears to think it is. 

 

 

[Flowerwater]

28 minutes ago, Blueyedjewel said:

HUH? Gods does not agree with unrighteousness!! . Yes, God is partial .  

 

Then God's word is in error? 

Peter didn't mean what he said in Acts 10:34?

Paul didn't know what he was talking about in his letter to the Romans? Chapter 2 , verse 11?

[Flowerwater]

11 minutes ago, Blueyedjewel said:

I thought I would post this as it is evident that many have eaten of the "twisted version" pervading the USA these days.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

Excellent point.  What this baker is asking for violates the protection in the establishment clause and the separation clause. 

I wonder though being I am new, is it typical that members here don't discuss a topic without calling names, or implying insult to those not in accord with their point of view? 

 

[Guest Thallasa]

2 minutes ago, Flowerwater said:

Then God's word is in error? 

Peter didn't mean what he said in Acts 10:34?

Paul didn't know what he was talking about in his letter to the Romans? Chapter 2 , verse 11?

We are now at the stage where there is no longer a Caesar , but a democracy ,and so things have changed .

You must now openly show on which side you are, as we are now in the phase of judgement ,being in a time when universal communication allows us to be more  free of leaders which were neccessary for the organisation of society until they soon won't be at all .We will have only one .

Many Christians think that there will be a sudden judgement but right now we are being  asked to get off the fence, which you, and so many are sitting on . Is it not so easy , to be a Christian who does not challenge the secular law , even when totally evil ?  When do you think  God will judge you for obfuscating ,and taking the side of the 'the evil in high places ,against ordinary people who are trying to show an example of bravery ,against the  pressure of a world wide campaign to destroy the family and the tribe by those who hate Him  .

This is a world wide campaign, and anyone who gets in the way will be destroyed . They sent many millions and protaganists to Ireland to blackmail and undermine the people and particularly the young and they won with a very small minority .They will make war on Russia to force it as they have in Germany against the wishes of the majority  .No where is safe now and you are worried about fitting in with the narrowist interpretation which will allow it to pass everywhere in the States .

You sound to me like a criminal lawyer with a criminal client who will do anything to free him .

 

[Guest Thallasa]

2 hours ago, Flowerwater said:

He's not practicing his faith. He's moving smack dab against the example of the very savior that set the groundwork for his faith.

 

I can honestly say ,I have never ever heard such evil on a Christian website , not ever .

[Guest Thallasa]

2 hours ago, simplejeff said:

There's always demons present.   Oppressing the mind/ soul/ spirit.

 

So same way to know as the Apostles and disciples all knew the evil spirit in this example for believers>

Study Bible

Paul and Silas Imprisoned
…17This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation.” 18She continued this for many days. Eventually Paul grew so aggravated that he turned and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” And the spirit left her at that very moment. 19When the girl’s owners saw that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities in the marketplace.…

Berean Study Bible · Download

 We are fortunate to have very few demons on Worthy ,but as we can see we should always be on guard .

[ayin jade]

3 hours ago, Flowerwater said:

He doesn't have a constitutional right to be a bigot in the name of Christ. He doesn't have a constitutional right to refuse service because he disapproves of someone's lifestyle. That's not what the constitution allows. 

Now though he wants the legal right to do all that. And his short sighted bigotry, and it is delusional on his part to think this is first amendment and not selective discrimination, thinks if he wins this it is a victory for all Christians opposed to gay marriage. No, it's chaos busting lose if this passes in the supreme court. 

It won't pass. God forbid it does pass. Because I don't want someone to refuse to sell me a car because they think Christians are hell bound infidels. I don't want an atheist to refuse to refuse to be a handyman in my house repairs when they see the God Bless You plaque on my front door. I don't want to be discriminated against because someone's personal beliefs about my personal self gives them a right to do that. 

This garbage went out with the separate but equal laws in the old south. Black and white water fountains and all that. No Christian can support this in good conscience and claim Jesus, who supped with sinners, and sought out the untouchables in his community. Even his disciples chastised him for that and Jesus set them straight. How can a Christian baker invoke Jesus name and do exactly what he didn't do when he walked the earth? 

Bake a cake! That's his job! He's not supporting gay marriage baking a cake. He's supporting his family as a baker, because he bakes cakes!

A Christian is not a bigot for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding. 

It is his business, not a mere job and as such he has the right to refuse service. He owns his business, not the state and not other people.

[ayin jade]

3 hours ago, Flowerwater said:

 Boy is that silly.  

How so? The case is in colorado and headed for the supreme court. A washington state court deciding a completely different case doesnt have any bearing on the colorado case.