Anyone know where Christians and only Christians..

[Gerioke]

most of the authors or prime characters in the bible had to deal with people of questionable fortitude.

I believe our life would be empty of purpose if we tried to cleanse ourselves of the riff raff.

You can seek out cyber utopia but I doubt you will find it. If you do then the bible neglected to tell me of this alternative heaven (no disrespect intended)

[RustyAngeL]

Hey brother,

Simply answered, no I do not.

[Constant]

((((Thread repliers))))

[carlos123]

I believe our life would be empty of purpose if we tried to cleanse ourselves of the riff raff.

You can seek out cyber utopia but I doubt you will find it. If you do then the bible neglected to tell me of this alternative heaven (no disrespect intended)

It's not about finding utopia Geroike. It's about dealing with sin in the midst of the Chruch properly.

It's not about cleansing ourselves from the rif raf. It's about siding with God against sin in our midst and bringing to bear, through the Church, God's intended discipline to help them brreak from their sin.

Look at these passages Gerioke (from the NIV). Forgive me for quoting it at lengh but I thik it's important to see that what I have been saying about dealing with sin in the midst of the Church is not just my opinion.

Joshua 7

But the Israelites acted unfaithfully in regard to the devoted things  ; Achan son of Carmi, the son of Zimri,  the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took some of them. So the LORD's anger burned against Israel.

Now Joshua sent men from Jericho to Ai, which is near Beth Aven to the east of Bethel, and told them, "Go up and spy out the region." So the men went up and spied out Ai.

When they returned to Joshua, they said, "Not all the people will have to go up against Ai. Send two or three thousand men to take it and do not weary all the people, for only a few men are there." 4 So about three thousand men went up; but they were routed by the men of Ai, who killed about thirty-six of them. They chased the Israelites from the city gate as far as the stone quarries and struck them down on the slopes. At this the hearts of the people melted and became like water.

Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD , remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads. And Joshua said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD , why did you ever bring this people across the Jordan to deliver us into the hands of the Amorites to destroy us? If only we had been content to stay on the other side of the Jordan! O Lord, what can I say, now that Israel has been routed by its enemies? 9 The Canaanites and the other people of the country will hear about this and they will surround us and wipe out our name from the earth. What then will you do for your own great name?"

The LORD said to Joshua, "Stand up! What are you doing down on your face? Israel has sinned; they have violated my covenant, which I commanded them to keep. They have taken some of the devoted things; they have stolen, they have lied, they have put them with their own possessions. That is why the Israelites cannot stand against their enemies; they turn their backs and run because they have been made liable to destruction. I will not be with you anymore unless you destroy whatever among you is devoted to destruction.

"Go, consecrate the people. Tell them, 'Consecrate yourselves in preparation for tomorrow; for this is what the LORD , the God of Israel, says: That which is devoted is among you, O Israel. You cannot stand against your enemies until you remove it.

" 'In the morning, present yourselves tribe by tribe. The tribe that the LORD takes shall come forward clan by clan; the clan that the LORD takes shall come forward family by family; and the family that the LORD takes shall come forward man by man. He who is caught with the devoted things shall be destroyed by fire, along with all that belongs to him. He has violated the covenant of the LORD and has done a disgraceful thing in Israel!' "

Early the next morning Joshua had Israel come forward by tribes, and Judah was taken.  The clans of Judah came forward, and he took the Zerahites. He had the clan of the Zerahites come forward by families, and Zimri was taken. 18 Joshua had his family come forward man by man, and Achan son of Carmi, the son of Zimri, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, was taken.

Then Joshua said to Achan, "My son, give glory to the LORD , [d] the God of Israel, and give him the praise.  Tell me what you have done; do not hide it from me."

Achan replied, "It is true! I have sinned against the LORD , the God of Israel. This is what I have done: When I saw in the plunder a beautiful robe from Babylonia, two hundred shekels of silver and a wedge of gold weighing fifty shekels, I coveted them and took them. They are hidden in the ground inside my tent, with the silver underneath."

So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and there it was, hidden in his tent, with the silver underneath. They took the things from the tent, brought them to Joshua and all the Israelites and spread them out before the LORD .

Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold wedge, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. Joshua said, "Why have you brought this trouble on us? The LORD will bring trouble on you today."

Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them. Over Achan they heaped up a large pile of rocks, which remains to this day. Then the LORD turned from his fierce anger. Therefore that place has been called the Valley of Achor ever since.

Please note that God withheld His blessing from the Israelites over the sin of ONE man who hid nothing more than a robe, some silver, and a wedge of gold under his tent. And that God blessed the stoning of the person who did it and his entire family!

God''s character has not changed!

He will still withhold blessing from His people for hidden and unrepented of sin.

1 Corinthians 10:5

Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written:

[Guest shiloh357]

That we must abide by what George and the mods allow given that we are on their forum is without question.

But may I suggest, and I think George and the mods would agree with this, that our guidebook if you will is not George and the mods but God through His Word?

This is a ministry. George and the mods are operating from the Word of God, and as the Holy Spirit leads them.

I have seen George and the mods helld in such high esteem here sometimes, and there is to be sure a lot to praise them in what they have done, that I wonder if this high esteem can sometimes interfere with seeing God's ulltimate way of doing things better. In other words we may think that because George and the mods are being led by the Spirit in the best way they know how that there isi no way that we, who are likewise being led by the Spirit by the way, can come to see how God might want to do things differently apart from their leading.

God has put George as chief steward. George is ultimately repsonsible for what happens here. In every ministry, there is a structure of authority. You are free to share ideas, but the decisions he makes are as the Lord leads.

There is a very subtle but dangerous view in Christian circles I think that leaders are in such a place in the Church that only they can discern the will of God or properly seek Him to fathom how we should be. As I see it a leaders main role is to lead by example of Christilikeness in how they conduct themselves. Not to get between us and God and determine what is and is not right by God to do.

I think that George and the mods would resent the notion that they feel they are go betweens, between us and God. They do not feel that way at all, and go out of their way to point out that they are just serving God as he leads them.

May I suggest in view of that, that there is something wrong in how we are doing Church at least on the Internet if instead of being contnually refreshed by our online fellowship we are oftentimes worn out from the conflicts?

That is the nature of a messageboard that has as its chief purpose, reaching the lost. You may not agree with the purpose of this board, but you do not have an equal say in how this board is run or the policies it abides by. You don't have to agree, but you and I do not have a say in board policies. We can either abide by the policies, that George has been led to establish, or we are free to find another board.

The risk you run of having a board opened up to sinners and saints is that you let in a lot of false teachers and troublemakers. Evidently, that is what God wants this board to do, and I will submit the leadership, so long as they do not violate cardinal principles of Scripture.

[carlos123]

Shiloh,

You seem to be reacting to what I said in a defensive way and implying things that I did not say. Ifi so I apologize if I said anything wrongly or offensively. I have just been trying to point out what the Bible says about dealing with sin in our midst in response to posts from others and trying to uncover how things could be done differently in another format elsewhere.

I respect George and the mods and submit to their leading on this board. Though that does not invalidate what I said about each of us needing to seek the Lord and get ideas from Him about how things might be able to be done better in a general sense on the Internet.

My intention is not and was never to demean, disrespect, or otherwise cut down this forum. I am and was seeking God's best and discussing that with others who responded to my posts. Correcting where I saw that correction was needed or otherwise speaking out what I saw to be God's truth as it might be applicable to achieving a better Internet fellowship.

If this thread has become counterproductive and if I cannot reasonably discuss this type of issue here then I will certainly submit to saying nothing more about this issue and leave it in God's hands.

Just know that I had no ill will toward anyone on this board or a bad heart wanting to cause a problem. It may have been unwise for me to ask on this board if anyone knew where I could find what I was looking for but my heart was, as far as I can tell about things within my own heart, right before God in terms of having had a good motive for wanting to discuss this with others.

Carlos

[Gerioke]

"2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."  Why are you afraid of people who don't share your beliefs?

It's called: Xenophobia- Fear of strangers or foreigners. or maybe... Theologicophobia- Fear of theology.  perhaps you've got....

Theophobia- Fear of gods or religion?

Perhaps you're suffering from: Sociophobia- Fear of society or people in general.

you sound suspiciously like lucy van pelt

[Matthitjah]

Carlos,

I would say that the Scripture you are quoting in Joshua has more to do with Obedience than it does sin.

That man who took the accursed thing had clear instructions not to. From Joshua handed down by God.

It had more to do with what had happened in the Garden in the beginning than it did with the the Gold he stole. God cannot work thru people who are not fully submitted to His Word. To His structure.

Remember that Moses could not go into the land because he disobeyed God in his anger.

As well the people who fell in the desert? They did not go in because of unbelief . They would not mix thoer Faith with the very Word of God. Yet Joshua and Caleb did and were rewarded for it.

Now God spent forty years rasing a new generation to take the promise by Faith and Obedinec. Which Joshua surely understood. Anyone rising up and not following every order in Obedience was a danger to the whole of the Nation.

There were times where God gave all the spoil to Israel. Other times He ordered it destroyed or in this case put into God's treasury.

Peace,

Dave

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh,

You seem to be reacting to what I said in a defensive way and implying things that I did not say.

[carlos123]

Good points all, Dave. Thanks!

Carlos