Noah's Ark & the rapture

[Guest]

On 8/8/2017 at 8:09 PM, Keras said:

We are given the formula for how time is for God in heaven, as compared to earthly time. Two witnesses say that to God: 1 day is equal to 1000 years earth time. Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8.  

Dear brother,

This is not a formula.  The passage of Scripture from which this is taken out of context is not about how to calculate anything.  It does not mention heavenly time and earthly time.  It not really comparing time, but uses time to make an illustration.

It's comparing how our perception of time causes us to think God is slow in keeping His promise when in fact He hasn't "delayed," He is patiently waiting for more people to repent.  (2 Peter 3:9). 

When we keep it in context of its own explanation, we see that it's not comparing our time with God's time, it's comparing our impatience to God's patience.

 

A note to anyone reading this:  any verse can say anything we want it to when removed from the surrounding passage.  A helpful hint on learning God's Word and teaching it to others is to leave verses like this with their self-explaining context and we won't stumble around with each other in confusion or debates. (Debate is good only if it reaches, or strives for, a resolution.)

 

Shalom

Edited September 2, 2017 by Guest
Auto-correct is faster than my editing...lol

[Keras]

2 hours ago, GusWilby said:

Dear brother,

This is not a formula.  The passage of Scripture from which this is taken out of context is not about how to calculate anything.  It does not mention heavenly time and earthly time.  It not really comparing time, but uses time to make an illustration.

It's comparing how our perception of time causes us to think God is slow in keeping His promise when in fact He hasn't "delayed," He is patiently waiting for more people to repent.  (2 Peter 3:9). 

When we keep it in context of its own explanation, we see that it's not comparing our time with God's time, it's comparing our impatience to God's patience.

Thanks Gus, for putting your case that some scripture is merely illustration. 

This concept, I disagree with and with the 2 scriptures that inform us about the time difference between God in heaven and us on earth; then I have to say you are wrong. This truth is alluded to in Genesis 1, where it says 'days' of creation, but we know from the fossil record, etc, that 1000 year periods fit the visible proofs much more accurately. But better proof of the 1 day in heaven equaling 1000 earth years, is in the Words of Jesus; Luke 13:32, where He prophesied the 'two days' from the commencement of His ministry work, until He attains His goal, that is: the Millennial reign. We know from hindsight, this period is now nearly 2000 tears. Also prophesied in Hosea 6:2. 

There has been exactly 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, exactly 2000 years between Abraham to Jesus, now 1988 years from Jesus. It is plainly said there will be a 1000 year reign of Jesus and world King, making a total of 7000 years of God's dealings with mankind. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

. This truth is alluded to in Genesis 1, where it says 'days' of creation, but we know from the fossil record, etc, that 1000 year periods fit the visible proofs much more accurately.

"alluded to???". Interesting choice of words..  Alluded comes from the same Latin root that we get the word, "ludicrous.".  The so-called fossil record is not dependable.  The creation account of Genesis does not allude to anything, it simply chronicles what has happened.  The use of the word "day" has no hidden meaning.  It is described in the Genesis account as "evening and morning."  Each day of creation is described this way.  The only way to fit your interpretation is to say that evening lasted 500 years and morning also lasted 500 years.  That would also mean that after 7000 years God redefined the word day, evening and morning, to mean 24 hours.  

What your interpretation of Genesis does is weaken the validity of God's Word.  After all, if it doesn't say what it means and words can change meaning, then what can people trust?

I don't have an issue with stating that there is a parallel between the seven literal days of creation, (6 & 1 day of rest), and the seven thousand years of earth's total existence., (of which we're near the end of the sixth metaphorical day).

But if you believe that Adam was created on the sixth day, then on the eight day, (the day that "day" changed from 1000 years to 24 hours overnight), he would've been already more than a thousand years old.  And that alone causes an extreme conflict in the Genesis record.  

But if you want to rely on man's callable fossil record to explain allusive words in Scripture, that is your choice.  But keep in mind that when you do, you're undermining the clarity of God's word.

Shalom brother.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

better proof of the 1 day in heaven equaling 1000 earth years, is in the Words of Jesus; Luke 13:32, where He prophesied the 'two days' from the commencement of His ministry work, until He attains His goal, that is: the Millennial reign.

"Proof" has become such a subjective word.  While Jesus' words may have a double meaning here, (and I don't have an issue with the 1000 year parallel), it is not proof of a formula that defines heavenly time verses earthy time.  

Often I see two prophecies in what seems like a single event.  You'll love the one in Daniel 12 when he asks the angel, "How long until the end of these things?".   The angel, (referred to as 'the man dressed in linen'), replied, "a time, times, and half a time.".   Many see this only as the time frame of the 3 1/2 years of the tribulation, but if you insert 1000 years for this undefined period of time and consider that this vision was given to Daniel c. 500 B.C., you see that "the end of all these things" is 3500 hundred years from Daniel's time.  That will be roughly the year 3000 A.D. which is the end of the 7th millennium since creation.

We are currently nearing the end of the 6th millennium, or 2500 years since Daniel's prophecy.  

Still so, while I do see and acknowledge the parallels in the time periods, I don't agree that we can apply that prophetic language to a formula to calculate time differences in the two realms of existence nor change meanings of words not meant to be metaphorical, such as the 7 literal days of creation.

Shalom.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

We know from hindsight, this period is now nearly 2000 tears. Also prophesied in Hosea 6:2. 

This is an awesome prophesy for House of Judah and the House of Israel!  It certainly has its place in the end times; however, I'd be reluctant to use this to define "heavenly time" and "earthly time.".  

Yes, Heavenly time and earthly time are not equal, but the Heavenly realm does not have " time" as we know it.  That realm is timeless.  Eternity shouldn't be considered as merely a longer period of time, but rather that which has no time.  There are not periods that can be called days, months, years or millennia.  

Shalom.

[Keras]

Gus, the thing that we certainly do agree on, is the very short time left of this Church age. 

This truth should make us think seriously about the prophesies telling us what God plans for our future. And to refer back to the OP of this thread, 2 Peter 3:1-7 reiterates what Jesus warned: the world will be again as in the days of Noah,  and the Lord will again correct this situation. Then Peter says; this time the world is reserved for burning....when the godless will be destroyed. 

This forthcoming terrible judgement/punishment by fire, is prophesied over 70 times in the Bible. All the details are given; how, why, when, etc. Shouldn't we know all about it and be ready for His protection on that Day?  Isaiah 43:2, 1 Corinthians 10:13, Psalms 9:10, +

[Guest]

On 9/3/2017 at 2:53 AM, Keras said:

Shouldn't we know all about it and be ready for His protection on that Day? 

Keras,

Absolutely!  We certainly should know.  Often in the greater context of these prophesies, we are being told how to act while waiting, how to relate to others, how to be in God's will, and so forth.  

I really believe that the general message is that we should live every day not just anticipating His return, but mostly acknowledging His presence.  We must keep our faith strong for times of any tribulation, great or small.  

And He does indeed promise protection for us when we stay strong, whether it be through our own personal storms or that which may shake up the entire church.

Shalom brother.

[Keras]

3 hours ago, GusWilby said:

Absolutely!  We certainly should know

Yes, but very few Christians do know. Far too many simply dismiss the prophesies as being too hard or inapplicable to them. 

I have written many short articles on what God has said He will do in the end times. Free to read at; logostelos.info