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What do you think Jesus meant?

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Shalom everyone,

I'm curious on everyone's take on what Jesus meant when He said, 

John 14:12  "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

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I think that the greatest work that a Christian can do is leading someone to Christ as Lord and Savior.

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4 hours ago, George said:

Shalom everyone,

I'm curious on everyone's take on what Jesus meant when He said, 

John 14:12  "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

I think Jesus talks about doing the work his Father gave him many times. Every time I believe he is also talking about the healing and miracles and not just leading people to a real relationship with God the Father. The Healing and miracles were part of the prophecies of the Messiah. It is part of the answer he gives to John the Baptist when he is in prison. Speaking the truth of God should always be first but it should also be accompanied by the Spirit and power of God. Because the works of Jesus always included the demonstration of the Spirit and power of God as well. 

Firestormx

Joseph

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The word greater in this instance means more numerous.  Real ministry is what The Holy Ghost does thru us. 

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Joh 14:12-14
(12)  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(13)  And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
(14)  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
 

What works is Jesus talking about here?

Well what was he called for?

Luk 4:18-19
(18)  The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(19)  To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
 

He basically was called to set people free, through various healings, casting out devils and so forth.

But Jesus was mostly restricted to Israel.

Then it says this:"greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" , a very key phrase here is, "because I go unto my Father".

What happened not long after , Jesus ascended to the Father?

He sent back the Holy Ghost.

And it was on the day of Pentecost, that the new testament church was born, every thing that Christ had done on the cross, and through his resurrection, had now entered into believing man, to were men were now able to be born again, and be filled with the Spirit.

1Pe 1:3
(3)  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So I believe that the phrase:"greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" ,does refer to miracles, people being set free and so forth, but not in the realm of miracles themselves being greater than other miracles, such as when Jesus laid hands on people and they rose from the dead, that in and of itself, is not any greater of a miracle, than say when Smiths Wigglesworth, was used of God, to were people rose from the dead.

Every truthful miracle is done by God , no matter who is used as an instrument for God.

So yes it does involve miracles, but in a big way, we have to remember that Jesus was limited to a specific area, but since Pentecost, it is no longer limited to a specific area, but also I believe that greater works shall ye do, also refers to the miracle of salvation, to were one is born again, for before the day of Pentecost, no one was born again, but since the day of Pentecost, men have been able to be born again, so in this sense, while Christ was alive, none were born again therefore this miracle was not done during his ministry.

And in some sense, it may refer to the increase of miracles, but especially it being done all over the world.

Edited by Giller
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On 9/2/2017 at 9:53 PM, Giller said:

What happened not long after , Jesus ascended to the Father?

He sent back the Holy Ghost.

The apostle Paul elaborated much on how the Holy Spirit 

works through the body of Christ. In 1 Corinthians 12:4-11,

Paul writes:

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith [d]by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of [e]healing [f]by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the [g]effecting of [h]miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the [i]distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills."

 

In Romans 12:3-8, we read:

" For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness."

 

Hence, the Holy Spirit presents Christ working through the entire body of

believers. Certainly, Jesus demonstrated the working of the Holy Spirit

as He ministered to the crowds, as He exhorted, showed mercy, taught,

 prophesied, healed, and demonstrated discernment of spirits.

 

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On 8/27/2017 at 9:39 AM, George said:

Shalom everyone,

I'm curious on everyone's take on what Jesus meant when He said, 

John 14:12  "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

As a start to a response, here's a quick initial word study on the word "works" as used in this verse.

ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ τὰ ἔργα ἃ ἐγὼ ποιῶ κἀκεῖνος ποιήσει, καὶ μείζονα τούτων ποιήσει, ὅτι ἐγὼ πρὸς τὸν πατέρα πορεύομαι· (SBL GNT John 14:12 from biblegateway.com)

The word works used here is τὸ ἔργον.  From 3rd Edition BDAG (the Bauer-Danker Greek Lexicon), the summary of this word's usage is as follows.

  1. That which displays itself in activity of any kind ("deed" or "action").
    1. in contrast to rest (e.g. in word and deed)
    2. manifestation or practical proof
    3. deed or accomplishment (of God, or Jesus, or humans)
  2. That which one does as a regular activity ("work", "occupation", "task")
  3. That which is brought into being by work ("product", "undertaking", "work")
  4. Something having to do with something under discussion ("thing", "matter")

Roughly speaking, it is a fairly generic word used to describe actions that people or God take (whether routine or extraordinary or miraculous) and the results of those actions.  It can be used of both positive and negative things.  It occurs 169 times in the UBS4 version of the GNT.  Here are the occurrences in the Gospel of John.   3:19-21, 4:34, 5:20, 5:36, 6:28-29, 7:3, 7:7, 7:21, 8:39, 8:41, 9:3-4, 10:25, 10:32-33, 10:37-38, 14:10-12, 15:24, 17:4.  In addition, I John 3:8,12,18; II John 1:11; III John 1:10; and Rev  2:2,5,6,19,22,23,26; 3: 1,2,8,15  (to round out the Johannine books).

Here are some examples (with English translations chosen to highlight the Greek word):

 but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. John 3:19 NIV

 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.   John 3:21 NKJV.

But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.   John 5:36 NKJV

Jesus answered and said to them, “I did one work, and you all marvel.  John 7:21  NKJV

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham.  John 8:39 NKJV

Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”  John 10:33

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.  I John 3:8

 

From this quick study, the general sense I have of this word is that it refers to anything and everything that someone might do and that it reflects their character and motivations.  It seems to include both mundane everyday activities and actions to typical ministry activities as well as the out of the ordinary and the miraculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 0:39 AM, George said:

Shalom everyone,

I'm curious on everyone's take on what Jesus meant when He said, 

John 14:12  "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

Hi George,

My thoughts are - because Jesus went to the Father, then now by His Holy Spirit working through the Body of Christ, greater, more numerous works (from the Head - Jesus) will be / are being, done.

regards, Marilyn.

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The second phrase I wondered about is μείζονα τούτων.  This is usually translated as greater works or something similar.

The word μεὶζων is the comparative form of μὲγας.  In English, we use words such as great, greater, and greatest as means of comparison.  The word μεὶζων corresponds to the English word greater (in contrast to great or greatest).  Note that sometimes English translations use the word greatest to translate the comparative form instead of greater.

This word generally means that something is larger, more excellent, better, or greater than something else.  It seems to emphasize the idea of higher quality more so than quantity though sometimes it can refer to quantity and extent.  The comparative form μεὶζων occurs 48 times in the USB4 GNT.   Here are some of the verses it is in.

Matt 11:11, 12:6, 13:32, 18:1, 18:4, 20:31, 23:11, 23:17, 23:19; Mark 4:32, 9:34, 12:31; Luke 7:28, 9:46, 12:18, 22:24-27; John 1:50, 4:12, 5:20, 5:36, 8:53, 10:29, 13:16, 14:12, 14:28, 15:13, 15:20, 19:11; Rom 9:12; I Cor 12:41 13:13, 14:5;  I John 3:20, 4:4, 5:9

Here are some examples of its usage.

Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.  Matt 11:11 NIV

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” Matt 18:1 NIV

The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’  There is no commandment greater than these.”  Mark 12:31

Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”  John 4:12 NIV

For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed.  John 5:20 NIV

Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.  John 13:16 NIV

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.  I Cor 13:13 NIV

 

My general sense of this phrase is that it is referring to the quality of the works rather than the quantity.  It is possible for the word to refer to number and extent, but the comparative form seems to be used more often in the NT to refer to the excellence or quality of something.

 

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The third thing I find interesting is the phrase ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ (usually translated as something like "the one who believes in me").

A few interesting things about this phrasing.  First is that it seems open ended.  It is not restricted to the disciples.

Another thing is the choice of the Greek participle used.  In English, we don't have as big a distinction between different aspects of action that Greek does.  I'll try to explain this.  Imagine that I saw a parade last week.    Today, I could represent that entire process of attending and enjoying it as a summary.  "I saw a parade."  In contrast, during the parade, I could describe the process of what I'm doing as "I am watching a parade."  In one aspect, the focus is summarizing the action, in the other the focus is on emphasizing that the action is occurring.

This Greek participle emphasizes an ongoing action of believing.  It could be translated as "the one who is actively believing in me" or "the one believing in me".   There seems to be a direct emphasis on the action and process of believing as something more ongoing than a once-for-all type of emphasis.  I think that this seems to carry the idea of ongoing faith in one's life rather than an initial act of faith or belief.

 

 

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