2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

[Daniel 11:36]

Disagree .... those who become believers during the coming tribulation will be subject to death at the hands of the beast

Today's believers and any before will be immortalized just before the tribulation begins

[Last Daze]

7 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Disagree .... those who become believers during the coming tribulation will be subject to death at the hands of the beast

Today's believers and any before will be immortalized just before the tribulation begins

Believe whatever you'd like.  Just be prepared to persevere to the end. 

• But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.  Matthew 24:13

"the end", "the last trumpet",  "the last day" - doesn't sound very "pre" to me.  Just an observation.

[Diaste]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:47 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

Believe this [Revelation 3:10] .... the Lord will keep His own from the hour [time] of trial that is coming upon the whole world [Revelation 6:12-17]

Truth. But what does "keep from the hour" mean? Pretrib demands it means a removal to heaven. Where is the proof of the definition to which you cling?

Maybe it just means a safe hiding place on earth. Maybe it means spiritual strength to endure. Maybe it's the idea that we escape the predators or are not noticed. 

I seem to remember some guys getting thrown in a furnace. Another guy tossed into a lions den. Lot lived among sodomites. Noah must have endured great persecution for a hundred years. Paul was horribly abused. Many Christians died in the arenas. Many are persecuted today the world over. What about all these people? Are you better than them? More perfect?  Why do they deserve persecution and you and your ilk do not? Maybe it's western hubris demanding special treatment.

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Diaste

[Daniel 11:36]

"Truth. But what does "keep from the hour" mean? Pretrib demands it means a removal to heaven. Where is the proof of the definition to which you cling?

Maybe it just means a safe hiding place on earth. Maybe it means spiritual strength to endure. Maybe it's the idea that we escape the predators or are not noticed."

 

Means exactly what is said .... no  believer, dead or alive, will enter the tribulation period .... all will be taken up and made immortal just before the tribulation begins [Revelation 3:10; 7:9-17]

Some of the tribulation will become believers .... most will be killed and resurrected at the end of the tribulation period [Revelation 14:13; Revelation 20:4 .... and I saw the souls of them that were  beheaded] .... and some will enter and populate the Lord's coming millennial kingdom as mortals [Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31-40]

There are no "maybes" in the Lord's Word

   

Edited November 6, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

35 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Truth. But what does "keep from the hour" mean? Pretrib demands it means a removal to heaven. Where is the proof of the definition to which you cling?

Maybe it just means a safe hiding place on earth. Maybe it means spiritual strength to endure. Maybe it's the idea that we escape the predators or are not noticed."

 

Means exactly what is said .... no  believer, dead or alive, will enter the tribulation period .... all will be taken up and made immortal just before the tribulation begins [Revelation 3:10; 7:9-17]

Some of the tribulation will become believers .... most will be killed and resurrected at the end of the tribulation period [Revelation 14:13; Revelation 20:4 .... and I saw the souls of them that were  beheaded] .... and some will enter and populate the Lord's coming millennial kingdom as mortals [Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31-40]

There are no "maybes" in the Lord's Word

   

Using Rev 3:10 as proof "kept from the hour " means transport to heaven is a circular argument. It's the same as saying, "Unicorns do not exist because unicorns do not exist."

You have said "kept from the hour" means transport to heaven because Rev 3:10 says, "...keep you from the hour of trial...". It may indeed mean just that but where is another factual premise? A solid conclusion is not based on a single fact.

You have to be deliberately obtuse to suggest I considered possibilities as truth. I was offering alternatives to the sketchy interpretation of Rev 3:10 and you twisted my meaning, completely ignoring the point that there are other conclusions besides the one which pretrib must defend.

Now if you have any scriptural proof to help define "kept from the hour" that harmonizes with and helps to interpret Rev 3:10, please post the scripture. Your convictions and parroting behaviors and the musings of the wolves are not proof.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Diaste

[Daniel 11:36]

"Using Rev 3:10 as proof "kept from the hour " means transport to heaven is a circular argument. It's the same as saying, "Unicorns do not exist because unicorns do not exist."

 

Here are a few: [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:7-18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10; Revelation 3:10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 18:4; 19:1-14] .... there are other scriptures

Now, your theories and comments are not true and you are exaggerating your position on this issue .... so unless you change your current way of presenting the matter, there is no need for you and I to discuss any further    

Edited November 6, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

50 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Using Rev 3:10 as proof "kept from the hour " means transport to heaven is a circular argument. It's the same as saying, "Unicorns do not exist because unicorns do not exist."

 

Here are a few: [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:7-18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10; Revelation 3:10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 18:4; 19:1-14] .... there are other scriptures

Now, your theories and comments are not true and you are exaggerating your position on this issue .... so unless you change your current way of presenting the matter, there is no need for you and I to discuss any further    

You are being deliberately obtuse. The whole issue is how Rev 3:10 proves a pretrib gathering. I said it was circular to use the premise as the conclusion. I am still looking for proof of the defining characteristics of "...keep you from the hour of trial..."

Not one of the passages you posted has anything to do with proof there is a pretrib rapture. Yes, we are transported to heaven, dead in Christ first, then those who are alive. Yes the Lord comes as a thief in the night. Yes, we are pictured in heaven, the marriage supper etc, etc. 

All you have proven is that there is a gathering, not when. So please demonstrate how the passages you posted, and others, explain the defining characteristics of Rev 3:10 proving the gathering, or any gathering, is pretrib.

Please do one at at time so I can rebut each contention.

Unless you don't have the time....or the nerve.

[Daniel 11:36]

Study your Bible son .... the Lord's pre-tribulation event will be His first .... and then He will bring His tribulation nonstop for 7 years plus 30 days for the battle of Armageddon .... then He will appear upon the earth

You have much to learn 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

19 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Study your Bible son .... the Lord's pre-tribulation event will be His first .... and then He will bring His tribulation nonstop for 7 years plus 30 days for the battle of Armageddon .... then He will appear upon the earth

You have much to learn 

As I suspected. You're a parrot. Demeaning comments and shaming tactics only prove the weakness of your position and confirms the fear you have that you could be wrong.

The only accurate  order to the end of the age is in Matt 24.

The beast will rise in the period called the beginning of sorrows. 3.5 years later, A of D. Then and only then, great tribulation. This will last for around 3 years, maybe less, maybe more. Then and only then will Jesus appear and we will be gathered. After this, the Wrath of God.

One coming. One gathering. After the tribulation of those days. As stated in the chapter you have ignored for too long. Matt 24. No other order is possible.

[WilliamL]

Rev. 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my cheerful patience, I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial, which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

First off, this is written to the faithful Philadelphians -- not to those of Laodicea, for example. So one cannot presume that this promise applies to every Christian in the End Times.

Second, note the "out of/ek the hour of trial": the preposition ek in Greek has the primary meaning "out of." Now, a player can be put in the game, in the heat of battle; but he can also be sidelined by the coach and thus out of the action; or even not be called to suit up at all, again out of the action. All at the Lord's discretion. The Tribulation may be taking place all over the place, but but God is perfectly able to protect certain people and places during the trial.

For one to presume any deeper meaning out of this passage, one must start reading into the passage one's own presumptions. I.e., be engaging in eisegesis, a really bad habit to pick up.