Barna Study - Divorce Rate HIGHER with Christians vs Aheists

[DesertSW]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I don't think the Barna study differentiated between those who claim to be "Christian"  and those who are committed followers of Jesus.   Lot's people belong to the Christian religion, but that doesn't mean they are followers of Christ.  They participate in the external Christian community, but that is as far as it gets.   We need to take into account the reality of "cultural Christianity,"  a form of Christianity that does not have Christ in it.

If the study filtered out those who pay lip service to Christianity and those who only serve the religion, the numbers would be quite different.   If Barna drilled down to committed followers of Jesus, the divorce rate is much, much lower.

I wish that was true but the reality is that true Christians sin and they sometimes commit sins like divorce.

No offense but the old label them an unbeliever if they sin response gets old and lame. I've heard it for 25 years and whenever a true Christian does something that is sinful, the auto response by some is to label them an unbeliever. It's the easy way to discredit them and avoid the true issue which is that born again "real" Christians sin and these sins are sometimes egregious.

Even let's say we use the most conservative number out there, which is 26% of born-again, evangelical, conservative Christians divorce, that's still 1 in 4. It's better than 1 in 3 but still pretty bad that 1 in 4 end in divorce.

As someone put it regarding Christian marriage & divorce:

Would you get on a plane if you knew they flight had a 1 in 4 chance of crashing?

 

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, DesertSW said:

I wish that was true but the reality is that true Christians sin and they sometimes commit sins like divorce.

I didn't say that they never get divorced.  I said that the rate is far lower among those who are committed followers of Jesus than those who simply assent to the religion.

Quote

No offense but the old label them an unbeliever if they sin response gets old and lame. I've heard it for 25 years and whenever a true Christian does something that is sinful, the auto response by some is to label them an unbeliever. It's the easy way to discredit them and avoid the true issue which is that born again "real" Christians sin and these sins are sometimes egregious.

I guess it's a good thing I didnt' say that, isn't it???   Maybe you need to read what I said instead of assigning false values to my words and misrepresenting them!!

And btw, divorces isnt' a sin!!
 

Quote

 

Even let's say we use the most conservative number out there, which is 26% of born-again, evangelical, conservative Christians divorce, that's still 1 in 4. It's better than 1 in 3 but still pretty bad that 1 in 4 end in divorce.

As someone put it regarding Christian marriage & divorce:

Would you get on a plane if you knew they flight had a 1 in 4 chance of crashing?

 

So is this really a polemic against getting married?

[DesertSW]

I am not saying that living together as Christians and not marrying is the answer. The Bible is clear about sex and marriage.

I am just stating that marriage is a risky proposition in today's day and age with the high rate of divorce. Like my ex-wife and her parents did, there are Christians who make light of divorce, and don't seek Godly healing and restoration but seek the "easy" way out by bailing and divorcing. Each case is different but in my case there was no abuse or adultery. I was a very loving and caring husband. Nobody is perfect but I was a good husband.

[Neighbor]

On 9/3/2017 at 6:09 PM, DesertSW said:

Barna study shows that the Christian divorce rate is HIGHER than atheists and non-believers. Sitting at around 32%-33%. While Atheists are around 30%

Barna Divorce Study (click here for Barna link)

Being a victim of a divorce just 1 years ago myself. I was shocked and dismayed when my Christian wife left me with no warning and divorced me with no attempt to seek Christian counseling. Without side tracking this post, there was no abuse, no infidelity, nothing that would justify a divorce. Four professional Christian counselors came to this conclusion. She gave no reason except she wanted to start over and was happier living in another state. I posted more on my personal divorce in the "Struggling" forum, if you want to read more about it, please post there.

So getting back to this topic. Why are Christians divorcing at such an alarming rate? Why doesn't the Body of Christ have a lower divorce vs unsaved atheists? '

Well, perhaps that particular survey is flat out wrong! From Good ol' "Got Questions" comes this review of the Barna study/survey.

"Question: "Is the divorce rate among Christians truly the same as among non-Christians?"

Answer: We’ve all heard the claim: “Christians are just as likely to divorce as non-Christians.” This statement is often attributed to a 2008 study by the Barna Research Group that indicated that those who identified as Christian were just as likely as non-Christians to be divorced. This study was also broken down into subcategories by religious denomination, showing Baptists and non-denominational Protestants leading the way in divorce. The claim that the divorce rate among Christians equals that of non-Christians builds upon the common assumption that 50 percent of all marriages end in divorce. But, according to the latest research, those statements about the divorce rate, among Christians in particular, are untrue.

Harvard-trained social researcher and author Shaunti Feldhahn, in her book The Good News About Marriagesays that the data reveals a different story about the divorce rate. Feldhahn states that the “50 percent” figure was not based on hard data; rather, the number came from projections of what researchers thought the divorce rate would become after states passed no-fault divorce laws. “We’ve never hit those numbers. We’ve never gotten close,” she writes. According to her study, the overall divorce rate is around 33 percent.

Partnering with George Barna, Feldhahn reexamined the data pertaining to the divorce rate among Christians and found that the numbers were based on survey-takers who identified as “Christian” rather than some other religion. Under that broad classification, respondents were as likely as anyone else to have been divorced. The “Christian” category included people who profess a belief system but do not live a committed lifestyle. However, for those who were active in their church, the divorce rate was 27 to 50 percent lower than for non-churchgoers. Nominal Christians—those who simply call themselves “Christians” but do not actively engage with the faith—are actually 20 percent more likely than the general population to get divorced.

Dr. Brad Wilcox, director of the National Marriage Project, states that “‘active conservative protestants’ who attend church regularly are actually 35% less likely to divorce than those who have no religious preferences” (quoted by Stetzer, Ed. “The Exchange.” Christianity Today. “Marriage, Divorce, and the Church: What do the stats say, and can marriage be happy?” Feb. 14, 2014. WEB. Oct. 26, 2015). In her studies, Feldhahn found that 72 percent of all married people were still married to their first spouse. And of those marriages, four out of five are happy.

Putting it all together, what these findings tell us is that religion itself cannot insulate us from the stresses that pull at the fabric of our marriages. But there’s definite good news regarding divorce rates and Christians: contrary to what’s been reported for years, the divorce rate is not 50 percent; it’s more like 30 percent. And then we find that people who keep God at the center of their home and family stay married at far greater rates, and even thrive within those marriages. One of the reasons for this is that those whose first commitment is to the lordship of Jesus put fewer expectations upon their spouses to meet emotional needs that only God can meet. The lessening of unrealistic expectations gives marriages a stronger foundation upon which to withstand difficult times.

Although 1 Peter 2:7 is speaking of the church in general, the words also echo the truths revealed in the statistics on Christian marriages: “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.” When Jesus is the cornerstone of our homes and marriages, we can weather the storms (see Matthew 7:24)."

Edited October 3, 2017 by Neighbor

[DesertSW]

21 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Well, perhaps that particular survey is flat out wrong! From Good ol' "Got Questions" comes this review of the Barna study/survey.

 

The study is sound and it is NOT flat out wrong.

Even the article touches on other studies showing the divorce rate around 30% for Christians, which is pretty close to the Barna study.

Instead of attacking the study, which is accurate, the focus should be on Christians choosing divorce so readily. The fault is in Christians choosing divorce so easily and readily in today's day and age. Pastors don't preach on divorce as often because they don't want to "offend" the congregation since it is filled with divorcees, probably 1/3 of the people in attendance or even 1/2 the people if it is a larger venue with older adults. 

Just like Peter betrayed Jesus, just like David murdered his best friend and had an adulteress relationship with his dead friends wife, just like the entire earths population (millions or some say billions) was killed off by God in a catastrophic flood except for Noah and his family. I can go on and on with Biblical references. These are issues of the failure of the human being. It's a tough pill to swallow but the human race is a complete disaster.

God said it Himself, " And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him to His heart. " (Genesis 6:6)

The Christian divorce stats are hard for some to swallow so they look for ways to discredit it. I look to the Bible and the Bible agrees with the stats in a symbolic way as the thousands of pages of God's Word clearly spell out that people will sin and even those who follow God will end up sinning and these sins are sometimes heinous like adultery, divorce and even murder.

The problem is not Barna and his study, the problem is the person. Even if saved and Holy Spirit indwelt, they will sometimes chose the wrong path and sin, as they still possess a fallen nature that will remain with that Christian until death or Rapture. Then and only then will that person sin no more since the old nature is dead and gone, left to rot on this fallen earth.

So stop blaming the Barna study and start blaming the actual person who chooses the path of sin and divorce.

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by DesertSW

[Neighbor]

18 hours ago, DesertSW said:

The study is sound and it is NOT flat out wrong.

Even the article touches on other studies showing the divorce rate around 30% for Christians, which is pretty close to the Barna study.

Instead of attacking the study, which is accurate, the focus should be on Christians choosing divorce so readily. The fault is in Christians choosing divorce so easily and readily in today's day and age. Pastors don't preach on divorce as often because they don't want to "offend" the congregation since it is filled with divorcees, probably 1/3 of the people in attendance or even 1/2 the people if it is a larger venue with older adults. 

Just like Peter betrayed Jesus, just like David murdered his best friend and had an adulteress relationship with his dead friends wife, just like the entire earths population (millions or some say billions) was killed off by God in a catastrophic flood except for Noah and his family. I can go on and on with Biblical references. These are issues of the failure of the human being. It's a tough pill to swallow but the human race is a complete disaster.

God said it Himself, " And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him to His heart. " (Genesis 6:6)

The Christian divorce stats are hard for some to swallow so they look for ways to discredit it. I look to the Bible and the Bible agrees with the stats in a symbolic way as the thousands of pages of God's Word clearly spell out that people will sin and even those who follow God will end up sinning and these sins are sometimes heinous like adultery, divorce and even murder.

The problem is not Barna and his study, the problem is the person. Even if saved and Holy Spirit indwelt, they will sometimes chose the wrong path and sin, as they still possess a fallen nature that will remain with that Christian until death or Rapture. Then and only then will that person sin no more since the old nature is dead and gone, left to rot on this fallen earth.

So stop blaming the Barna study and start blaming the actual person who chooses the path of sin and divorce.

 

It is Barna that teamed up  with another survey team and found their own study conclusions to be flawed!  So I am not attacking a "valid" survey, I am simply following up, and in that follow up process I found that Barna  acknowledged the error in their own conclusions. BTW I receive Barna survey requests and participate in answering them. The premise of many of their questions  just don't fit the circumstance of reality and there is compromise made in rendering responses. Also surveys that projected a 50% divorce rate are just that,  projections that were made when  no fault divorce came about as a matter of State laws. The rate has never hit 50%

Surveys make projections based upon the responses plus their own idea of what the effects of current trends and laws will do, then the companies go out and  declare their projections. People take them as fact when they are not. That is one reason political surveys are so wrong so often.

And from another resource comes this for consideration: 

 Jesus tells us that He is the way for us to reach the Father and that He has come to give us abundant, extraordinary, remarkable, valuable life!

The thief, on the other hand, only comes to steal, kill, and destroy.  This is as true today as it was in Jesus’ day and applies not only to false and selfish leaders, but to our spiritual enemy, the devil (or “thief”).  This thief lies to us and deceives us as a culture.  One example is that if you were asked what the divorce rate in America is, you would likely say 50%, but that is a falsification of statistics and is not even close to the truth.  Yes, in San Diego County last year there were 27,000 marriages and 13,000 divorces (about 50%), but what is not stated is that many of those divorces are second, third, fourth, and fifth marriages.   These are the true statistics on marriage:

According to the most recent Census Bureau, 72% of people are still married to their first spouse. Currently in the U.S., the divorce rate is dramatically declining. 80% of marriages state they are happy in their marriage and 93% state that they would marry the same spouse over again. Among Christian marriages of church-goers, the divorce rate decreases another 25-50%. The most active couples in their faith report being the happiest in their marriage.
– The Good News About Marriage by Shaunti Feldhahn (Available in the Rockpile Bookstore)

Why do we all know a false statistics?  It is because we are given a false message to erode our faith and joy.  Our adversary wants to steal our hope and seeks to draw us away from God’s abundant life.

Are you embracing that abundant life that God offers?  http://www.sdrock.com/messages/2014-08-17/

Also see : https://www.barna.com/research/new-marriage-and-divorce-statistics-released/

 

[Neighbor]

" Pastors don't preach on divorce as often because they don't want to "offend" the congregation since it is filled with divorcees, probably 1/3 of the people in attendance or even 1/2 the people if it is a larger venue with older adults."

 I suggest that all of the above is anecdotal in nature, without basis in any factual numbers and contains several prejudices that will skew opinion.

 As an anecdotal response; I state that  it is not my experience that  my pastors have ever shied from truth. On the contrary,  it has been my experience that  many seem to go  hard at such issues as human behavior patterns versus the expressed will of God for our behavior. 

I just looked and found quickly five hours of sermons on divorce and marriage by my own senior pastor.

[ravindran]

On 9/3/2017 at 9:09 PM, DesertSW said:

Barna study shows that the Christian divorce rate is HIGHER than atheists and non-believers. Sitting at around 32%-33%. While Atheists are around 30%

Barna Divorce Study (click here for Barna link)

Being a victim of a divorce just 1 years ago myself. I was shocked and dismayed when my Christian wife left me with no warning and divorced me with no attempt to seek Christian counseling. Without side tracking this post, there was no abuse, no infidelity, nothing that would justify a divorce. Four professional Christian counselors came to this conclusion. She gave no reason except she wanted to start over and was happier living in another state. I posted more on my personal divorce in the "Struggling" forum, if you want to read more about it, please post there.

So getting back to this topic. Why are Christians divorcing at such an alarming rate? Why doesn't the Body of Christ have a lower divorce vs unsaved atheists? '

This is not surprising at all. First, many people call themselves as Christians even without stepping into Church once or reading Bible once. Lot of people are born to Christian parents and identify themselves as Christians for name sake. The survey probably does not care about that.

But I would not be surprised if such high percentage is noticed within Church goers. People try to find answers for divorce from Bible without understanding how marriage is supposed to be built. My humble opinion is that many Christians fall into adultery even before marriage. Living together and premarital relationships are very common among Christians also. When a person gets married after doing such things before marriage, the sanctity of the marriage is already spoiled. To reduce divorce, a fix is needed on how people are getting married. Only then stronger marriages can be built.

[DesertSW]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

The thief, on the other hand, only comes to steal, kill, and destroy.  This is as true today as it was in Jesus’ day and applies not only to false and selfish leaders, but to our spiritual enemy, the devil (or “thief”).  This thief lies to us and deceives us as a culture.  One example is that if you were asked what the divorce rate in America is, you would likely say 50%, but that is a falsification of statistics and is not even close to the truth. 

I am not following your "logic" here as the opposite of what you said would be Biblically true. The "thief" lies in order to lull people into a state of "all is great with our world" and "all is good, nothing bad going on".

The "thief" or the Devil in Jesus' time was telling everyone "all is well, we are doing great as a society and we are not sinning".

So I would disagree with you vehemently as you are claiming the divorce rates by Barna were falsified and we as a Christian society are doing well when it comes to marriages, yet reality states otherwise and the millions of broken Christian homes and marriages show the reality of the truth.

By your "stats" if you read them carefully, you claim the Christian divorce rate is next to zero, which is an absurdity and a lie.

Edited October 5, 2017 by DesertSW

[DesertSW]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

" Pastors don't preach on divorce as often because they don't want to "offend" the congregation since it is filled with divorcees, probably 1/3 of the people in attendance or even 1/2 the people if it is a larger venue with older adults."

 I suggest that all of the above is anecdotal in nature, without basis in any factual numbers and contains several prejudices that will skew opinion.

 As an anecdotal response; I state that  it is not my experience that  my pastors have ever shied from truth. On the contrary,  it has been my experience that  many seem to go  hard at such issues as human behavior patterns versus the expressed will of God for our behavior. 

I just looked and found quickly five hours of sermons on divorce and marriage by my own senior pastor.

It's not anecdotal as the studies conducted by Barna (which you don't believe in) showed that most Christians attending churches today don't believe in absolute truths and basic Christian doctrines. I can reference the study (below) but it's of no use since you will just try and discredit it.

https://www.barna.com/research/competing-worldviews-influence-todays-christians/

Look, no offense, but we are on 2 different wavelengths here. You believe all is well in the Christian world with marriages and divorce but the reality shows otherwise. You believe that modern Christians are holding to fundamental values and beliefs but the reality and studies show otherwise.

I really don't have the time to debate this with you as we will never see eye to eye. You can believe all is great and happy with Christian marriages in modern day America but it is not. I find it sort of ironic on how the Bible's thousands of pages detail mankind's ignorance and belief that all is well while their sinful behavior and the world fell apart around them. God sent prophets and signs but the people kept ignoring it and thought all is great and well.

We won't agree on this topic, that is for sure. Best to just stop discussing it with each other. Thank you for your time and input.

Edited October 5, 2017 by DesertSW