Fall of man.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

14 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Isn't that why born again Christians are on a Christian message board. To post the truth and try to bring attention to false doctrine?

I would hope that is true, but there is much disagreement as to what is false doctrine.  We can respectfully disagree about non-essentials of the faith, but when it comes to doctrine, we should not let false doctrine stand.  Free will, to me, is an essential of the Christian faith.  The Reformed position takes the blame for sin that rightly belongs to us, and places it on God relieving us of responsibility.  Whenever or wherever this comes up, we should be prepared to answer Biblically, as you have.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

13 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Yes, but the people pushing the false doctrine never get the point.

It seems like that.  But having been on the other side of this argument, with the Holy Spirit's guidance, even the stubborn, like myself, will eventually see the truth.  The big sticking point in the argument for reformed-minded folks is God's sovereignty.  Their solution is the false doctrine of limited atonement.

[ravindran]

On 9/12/2017 at 5:59 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

The "L" (Limited Atonement) is much more complicated and where many Christians have a problem with Reformed Theology.  It has everything to do with a lack of understanding of the nature (for lack of a better term) of YHWH, God.  God doesn't experience time the way we do.  God is, and can move in and out of space/time because He is not bound by His own creation.  Jesus' sacrifice was enough to save everyone by His grace and mercy, but He doesn't force His grace upon us.  He gave us the same free will that He gave Adam, and like Adam, we failed.  His death and resurrection was enough to save everyone.  So it is not limited by God.  It seems limited by us because not everyone accepts the free gift of eternity with God.  We blame God when someone rejects Him, but it is their choice.  God knows who will accept His free gift of salvation before we even existed.  But it is still offered.

Consider Job.  Job was blessed by God.  God bragged to Lucifer about His servant Job, and Lucifer started a series of tests for Job as God allowed.  And each test, Job passed and did not curse God.  In all these things Job did not sin.  Lucifer would not have requested these tests unless Lucifer knew Job had free will.  God knew Job had free will but God also knew the end of the tests before the beginning.  Lucifer is bound in space/time but God is not.  I hope this makes some sense to you.  The Holy Spirit gave me this and turned me from a Calvinist to a non-Denominational Christian and believer in free will.

I don't call myself Calvinist, but I find it very hard not to believe in reformed theology. But I no longer argue with anyone on this topic, which I used to do a lot before. We all certainly have free will. It is exactly this free will that causes us to reject Jesus Christ! Gospel message is shared to everyone. There could be 2 people who hear the same message, come from very similar background, brought up in very similar ways and have very similar education. One accepts and the other does not. Why? Is it because one of the person had some special ability? I don't think so. It is the condition of heart. One heart was ready to take the seed and let it grow. The other did not. God does something very special in the heart of a person which allows them to freely choose Jesus and not reject. Without that act of God, we freely choose to reject Him. It does not mean salvation is forced down a person's throat. It does not mean we are puppets. We all resist God's grace. We all act against Holy Spirit. If grace is 100% irresistible, we won't even sin! On our day to day to life we resist grace. When it comes to Salvation, God does change the condition of heart. Whoever has been given to Jesus Christ, their hearts will be changed (John 6:37).

[SavedOnebyGrace]

27 minutes ago, ravindran said:

I don't call myself Calvinist, but I find it very hard not to believe in reformed theology. But I no longer argue with anyone on this topic, which I used to do a lot before. We all certainly have free will. It is exactly this free will that causes us to reject Jesus Christ! Gospel message is shared to everyone. There could be 2 people who hear the same message, come from very similar background, brought up in very similar ways and have very similar education. One accepts and the other does not. Why? Is it because one of the person had some special ability? I don't think so. It is the condition of heart. One heart was ready to take the seed and let it grow. The other did not. God does something very special in the heart of a person which allows them to freely choose Jesus and not reject. Without that act of God, we freely choose to reject Him. It does not mean salvation is forced down a person's throat. It does not mean we are puppets. We all resist God's grace. We all act against Holy Spirit. If grace is 100% irresistible, we won't even sin! On our day to day to life we resist grace. When it comes to Salvation, God does change the condition of heart. Whoever has been given to Jesus Christ, their hearts will be changed (John 6:37).

I called myself a Calvinist because there was things in Reformed Theology that did not feel Biblically correct to me.  For example, I wanted to become a member of another forum several years ago.  They had a questionnaire to fill out to see if you were qualified.  One of the questions was what creed did I adhere to.  I said a literal interpretation of the Bible and was rejected.  Another thing I especially didn't like was their attitude towards Israel and their Amillennial position on End Times.

The "I" in T-U-L-I-P stands for Irresistible Grace.  Reformed folks seem to see any attack on Irresistible Grace as an attack on God's sovereignty.  Eventually that argument leads to predestination and no free will.  Which leads to why did Jesus need to redeem us from something we had no control over?  What was the purpose of the Great Commission if we had no choice?

[ravindran]

1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I called myself a Calvinist because there was things in Reformed Theology that did not feel Biblically correct to me.  For example, I wanted to become a member of another forum several years ago.  They had a questionnaire to fill out to see if you were qualified.  One of the questions was what creed did I adhere to.  I said a literal interpretation of the Bible and was rejected.  Another thing I especially didn't like was their attitude towards Israel and their Amillennial position on End Times.

The "I" in T-U-L-I-P stands for Irresistible Grace.  Reformed folks seem to see any attack on Irresistible Grace as an attack on God's sovereignty.  Eventually that argument leads to predestination and no free will.  Which leads to why did Jesus need to redeem us from something we had no control over?  What was the purpose of the Great Commission if we had no choice?

I do agree on the point about end times and position towards Israel. I have disagreement with Reformed theology. But I do enjoy listening to Reformed preachers! They are pretty solid!

[SavedOnebyGrace]

13 minutes ago, ravindran said:

I do agree on the point about end times and position towards Israel. I have disagreement with Reformed theology. But I do enjoy listening to Reformed preachers! They are pretty solid!

I like R. C. Sproul, John MacArthur, James White, and others, but I do have some disagreements.

[KiwiChristian]

Calvinism is unblical

 

TOTAL DEPRAVITY. Ephesians 2:1 ‘dead in trespasses and sins’. (p.611,613).

Q: Does man have free will to receive Christ, and to do good? (p.610,613).
Calvinist inability to receive Christ is based on:

i) John 1:13 ‘nor of the will of man, but of God.’ (Ans: ‘as many as..’ John 1:12). (p.614).
ii) Romans 9:16 ‘not of him that willeth,but of God’(Ans: John 5:40; Romans 6:17; Luke 15:24).
iii) John 8:43,44 ‘ye cannot hear my word.’ (Ans: Luke 15:24; Luke 16:23-28). (p.615).

Refuting Calvinists’ ‘Proof Texts’ for Total Depravity

i) Someone who ‘cannot’ do something:

John 8:43 ‘ye cannot hear my word.’ (John 8:44,45,46,24). (p.615).
John 14:17 ‘the world cannot receive.’ (p.615).
Romans 8:8,7 ‘in the flesh cannot please God.’ (I Corinthians 1:21 preaching to save).
(p.615).

ii) Someone’s ‘inability’ but with a reason given for it:

John 6:44 ‘except the Father draw him.’ (Ans: John 6:45; 12:32; 1:9; 16:7-11).
John 6:65 ‘except it were given unto him of the Father.’ (p.615,616).
John 12:39-40 ‘they could not believe, … He hath hardened their heart.’
(John 12:37,39; Matthew 12:15; Acts 28:27). (p.615; 631-632).

iii) Romans 3:11 ‘none that seeketh after God’ (Ans: Acts 10:2; Isaiah 45:19; 55:6; Psalm 10:4)
I Corinthians 2:14 ‘natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God.’
(Ans: Eph.1:13)

Two Kinds of Scriptures that Overthrow Total Depravity Inability:

i) Scriptures containing a command to believe: Acts 17:30; Isaiah 45:22; Mark 1:15; Matthew 11:28; I John 3:23; John 7:37; Revelation 22:17; Isaiah 45:19. (p.618).

ii) Scriptures implying the possibility that a man can believe: John 5:40; I Thess. 2:16. (p.618).