Principles of Interpretation - Hermeneutics

[Marilyn C]

25 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Well, you were making an argument.   The implication is was that if we read  a story in a secular book about a talking snake and a tree the gives life, etc., we would not take those things to be literal and so we should not take them literally when reading the Bible.   That was the argument you were making, even if only implied.

 

Hi shiloh,

Let me be clear bro. the point I was making concerning a story (not the Bible) with a talking snake, was to rule that out as a valid interpretation. We both agree on that. I brought in the other points to show that we need other parts of God`s word to fully understand Gen.3.

I will prepare how I go about interpreting Gen. 3, step by step. Will, of course be interested in what you say.

regards, Marilyn. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

I brought in the other points to show that we need other parts of God`s word to fully understand Gen.3.
 

I agree with that, but there is only ONE right way to do that, and several wrong ways.

[Marilyn C]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

I agree with that, but there is only ONE right way to do that, and several wrong ways.

So it will be good to do the details with you, bro. I`m sure I`ll learn some things.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Shiloh,

My thoughts on interpreting Genesis chapter 3.

I believe that the most important principle in studying God`s word is that -`God`s Word reveals Christ, His character and God`s purposes through Him.`

`And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.` (Luke 24: 27)

It is the Father`s great delight to reveal His Son to us. This He does through various symbols, types, shadows etc using creation and manmade objects. All these help us to come to understand more of Christ, His deity, His character, and why He came from heaven to earth.

The Father desires that Christ may in all things have the pre-eminence. (Col. 1: 18) We need to understand this and place this as a focus when reading God`s word, otherwise other agenda`s take precedence - ie. us, or Israel, or the world being restored....All these are within God`s plan however it all comes, I believe under Christ being pre-eminent.

As we read Genesis we see that it is a historical narrative, (as Shiloh also believes); it reveals how sin mars creation, and how Christ was manifest as a man to pay the price for man`s redemption, plus regaining possession and restoration of creation.

It is the problem and solution in a nut shell from which all of God`s word unfolds in greater detail.

Next I will show how I interpret Gen. 3 with the focus of God the Father revealing Christ to us.

[Marilyn C]

So this is how I interpret Gen. 3 with the focus of God the Father revealing Christ to us.

 I believe Gen. 3 is a historical narrative with some parts needing more explanation - eg. the serpent talking, the two trees, the flaming sword, and the cherubim at the east gate.

 

Adam, a type of Christ.

` Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.` (Rom. 5: 14)

Adam, the father of all mankind, was given dominion over the earth by God. (Gen. 1: 28)

Christ, the `last Adam,` (1 Cor. 15: 45) the `life-giving spirit` to those who receive Him, was given dominion and authority in heaven and earth. (Matt. 28: 18,  Eph. 1: 20 & 21,  Rev. 5: 12)

 

So we see that right at the beginning God gave man dominion of the earth, however as we read more of God`s word we see that God gave His Son, greater dominion - authority and power in heaven and earth. Genesis is the true story of God`s dealing with man, yet it highlights the pre-eminence of God`s Son through the use of `types.` And here Adam is a type of Christ, - Christ, the one who would give true life, and have the greater dominion.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Christ`s pre-eminence - in the midst.

`The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.` (Gen. 2: 9)

Christ has the knowledge of `good and evil.` (Gen. 3: 22)                                                 

Christ made all things `good.` That is His divine nature - life. (Gen. 1)

Thus I see that the two trees, although present, are also a pictorial representation of Christ in His pre-eminent position in the garden - in the midst. To obey Him, Adam & Eve would receive of His goodness, His divine nature, (life) whereas to disobey Him, brings the knowledge of good and evil, leading to death.

 

The `flaming sword,` is I believe another pictorial representation. It shows that God`s holiness bars anyone from receiving His divine nature while sinful.

`...holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.` (Heb. 12: 14)

 

So as we read the narrative we see that Adam and Eve disobey God by heeding the `hissing, lies` of Satan through the serpent, and eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The fruit does not contain the `knowledge` but the consequences of disobeying the Lord brings about the knowledge of good and evil.

God then reveals how this problem of sin will be resolved. The `seed` of the woman, the manifestation of Christ as man, (Gal.3: 29) will deal with Satan, the serpent. Christ`s blood will be the price to redeem man from sin. God reveals this through the shedding of animal`s blood to make the tunics for Adam and Eve. (Gen. 3: 21)

 

[Marilyn C]

Finally God`s glory is removed from creation and it comes under bondage of corruption, groaning and labouring. (Rom. 8: 21 & 22) This removal of God`s glory is represented by the cherubim at the east of the garden, covering it. We know from the prophet Ezekiel that it is through the east (gate of the temple) that the Lord`s glory will come.

`Afterwards he brought me to the gate, the gate that faces towards the east. And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.` (Ez. 43: 2)

And this glory is of Christ, the Messiah coming to deliver Israel from its enemies, and set up Israel as the ruler over the earth. This is in the millennium.

 

So to me, I see that although Gen. 3 is a historical narrative there is much in there that God would have us appreciate through types and pictorial representations. When we place Christ as the focus, His character and God`s purposes through Him, then we gain the Father`s perspective.

Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.` (Luke 24: 27)

It is the Father`s great delight to reveal His Son to us. This He does through various symbols, types, shadows etc using creation and manmade objects. All these help us to come to understand more of Christ, His deity, His character, and why He came from heaven to earth.

 

There are types and shadow in Scripture.  But the Bible tells us what is or is not a type or shadow.   We don't get to assign that value to whatever we want, arbitrarily.  But that is what I see you doing here.

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

So this is how I interpret Gen. 3 with the focus of God the Father revealing Christ to us.

 I believe Gen. 3 is a historical narrative with some parts needing more explanation - eg. the serpent talking, the two trees, the flaming sword, and the cherubim at the east gate.

 

Adam, a type of Christ.

` Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.` (Rom. 5: 14)

Adam, the father of all mankind, was given dominion over the earth by God. (Gen. 1: 28)

Christ, the `last Adam,` (1 Cor. 15: 45) the `life-giving spirit` to those who receive Him, was given dominion and authority in heaven and earth. (Matt. 28: 18,  Eph. 1: 20 & 21,  Rev. 5: 12)

 

So we see that right at the beginning God gave man dominion of the earth, however as we read more of God`s word we see that God gave His Son, greater dominion - authority and power in heaven and earth. Genesis is the true story of God`s dealing with man, yet it highlights the pre-eminence of God`s Son through the use of `types.` And here Adam is a type of Christ, - Christ, the one who would give true life, and have the greater dominion.

 

 

How is Adam a "type" of Christ?  In typology, types always correspond with and are fulfilled by the anti-type.  Jesus did not "fulfill"  anything relative to Adam. 

• Adam was created, whereas Jesus, as God, was incarnated.
• Adam was disobedient, whereas, Jesus was obedient.
• Adam sinned and lost eternal life, whereas Jesus was sinless and gives eternal life
• Adam was made a living soul, whereas Jesus gives quickens and thus gives life.  Adam could not give life.
• Adam is from the earth, whereas Jesus preexisted his life on earth and came from Heaven.
• Adam's disobedience brought death and a curse, whereas Jesus' was obedient and brings life and blessing

I could go on, but I think I have made my point.  Everything relative to a comparison between Adam and Jesus shows the opposite of one being the type of the other.   Jesus is the reverse of everything pertaining to Adam.

In typology, there has to be a fulfillment from type to anti-type ("anti-types"  are the reality that fulfills the type).  Legitimate types of Christ presented in the Bible would be things like the burnt offering, Melchizedek, the serpent on the pole, the Yom Kippur sin offering and so on.  In those things, there is a fulfillment through the ministry and sacrifice of Christ.   Jesus did not fulfill anything about Adam, as Adam was everything Christ is not and vice-versa.

So what I can see right from the start, is that you don't really grasp typology and are using types and shadows illegitimately and that skews your understanding of a given text.

 

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Christ`s pre-eminence - in the midst.

`The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.` (Gen. 2: 9)

Christ has the knowledge of `good and evil.` (Gen. 3: 22)                                                 

Christ made all things `good.` That is His divine nature - life. (Gen. 1)

Thus I see that the two trees, although present, are also a pictorial representation of Christ in His pre-eminent position in the garden - in the midst. To obey Him, Adam & Eve would receive of His goodness, His divine nature, (life) whereas to disobey Him, brings the knowledge of good and evil, leading to death.

 

The `flaming sword,` is I believe another pictorial representation. It shows that God`s holiness bars anyone from receiving His divine nature while sinful.

`...holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.` (Heb. 12: 14)

 

So as we read the narrative we see that Adam and Eve disobey God by heeding the `hissing, lies` of Satan through the serpent, and eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The fruit does not contain the `knowledge` but the consequences of disobeying the Lord brings about the knowledge of good and evil.

God then reveals how this problem of sin will be resolved. The `seed` of the woman, the manifestation of Christ as man, (Gal.3: 29) will deal with Satan, the serpent. Christ`s blood will be the price to redeem man from sin. God reveals this through the shedding of animal`s blood to make the tunics for Adam and Eve. (Gen. 3: 21)

 

The two trees do not represent Christ and the Bible NEVER offers either tree as representing Christ.   You don't get to make this stuff up on your own if you want to be a competent exegete.   There is nothing about either tree that is said anywhere in the Bible to be types or representatives of Jesus.   You cannot arbitrarily assign typology in this way and claim to be doing hermeneutics.   This is just sloppy and lazy. 

Hermeneutics can be done in a way that we can apply the rules of literary analysis and do no harm to the Christology of the OT.  In fact, when hermeneutics are done properly the Christology of the OT is easier to present and defend. 

Your approach with "pictorial representation," as I have already seen is just shorthand for a rejection of a literal interpretation of the text given that you cannot bring yourself to believe that the sword, the talking serpent, the cherubim, as being non-literal.

And another thing....  You are wrong about the tree of knowledge.   The tree did contain the knowledge of all things good and evil.    The tree did not bring death or consequences.   It was Adam's disobedience that brought about the consequences of death.

In addition, the tree of life was not the tree of eternal life, thus does not in any way represent Jesus.  The flaming sword was to keep man from gaining immortality while in a sinful state.   The tree of life, in man's fallen state, was a curse to man.  Were the tree of life a tree of eternal life, the way would not have been barred. 

All of us are sinners and yet all of us are partakers of the divine nature by virtue of our salvation (II Pet. 1:4)

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

So to me, I see that although Gen. 3 is a historical narrative there is much in there that God would have us appreciate through types and pictorial representations. When we place Christ as the focus, His character and God`s purposes through Him, then we gain the Father`s perspective.

Marilyn.

What you have done is show that you really don't have a grasp on things like types and shadows and you have failed to prove that the historical narrative in Genesis three has any non-historical, non-literal elements to it.

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 

How is Adam a "type" of Christ?  In typology, types always correspond with and are fulfilled by the anti-type.  Jesus did not "fulfill"  anything relative to Adam. 

 Jesus did not fulfill anything about Adam, as Adam was everything Christ is not and vice-versa.

 

Hi Shiloh,

Dear bro in your haste to `prove` me wrong you forgot the basics.

Adam - was given dominion of the earth by God, but he forfeited it when he disobeyed God.

Christ, the second Adam - never gave dominion of the earth away and thus He inherits the earth and all that is in it. 

Thus Christ fulfils what Adam was not able to do - have dominion over the earth. So Adam is a type of Christ in receiving dominion of the earth, but it was Christ who fulfilled the responsibility of dominion.  

Marilyn.  

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

 

How is Adam a "type" of Christ?  In typology, types always correspond with and are fulfilled by the anti-type.  Jesus did not "fulfill"  anything relative to Adam. 

And again Shiloh, another example -

Adam - was given life, but because of sin he passed on death.

Christ the second Adam - was given life, but chose to die and thus became a `life-giving spirit.` 

Thus we see that Adam is a type of Christ as a life giver to those who come after him, however it is Christ who surpasses that earthly `life,` and gives `eternal life.`

regards, Marilyn.