What is free will?

[Reinitin]

On 10/7/2017 at 8:42 PM, Abdicate said:

So some chose to build a plane!

no but the man can choose to purchase a glider or plane our helicopter or rent a helocooter and fly over the bridge if he pits his mind and will to accomplish it his will is free and limited only by his imagination.

[Robert William]

On 10/8/2017 at 1:44 PM, the watchman said:

aww carm  i post the forum there   gets rather interesting   it usually  ends up being told i am false teaching lol

Teaching Pelagianism is false.

[Jude1:3]

I don't believe Matt Slick is even really a Christian. He's a Deceiver and a Heretic.

[Robert William]

On 10/7/2017 at 9:42 PM, Abdicate said:

So some chose to build a plane!

Man can freely choose anything except the gospel because he is born an enemy and hater of God.

Total Depravity is the doctrine that fallen man is completely touched by sin and that he is completely a sinner. He is not as bad as he could be, but in all areas of his being, body, soul, spirit, mind, emotions, etc., he is touched by sin. In that sense he is totally depraved. Because man is depraved, nothing good can come out of him (Rom. 3:10-12), and God must account the righteousness of Christ to him. This righteousness is obtainable only through faith in Christ and what He did on the cross.

Total depravity is generally believed by the Calvinist groups and rejected by the Arminian groups.

Verses used in support of total depravity are as following. Please examined them to see if you think the doctrine is Biblical or not.

It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), loves darkness (John 3:19), does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), is ungodly (Rom. 5:6), dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1), by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3), cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), and a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
The unbeliever CAN respond to God. His response will be in accordance to Scripture that says that he cannot do good, is a hater of God, is full of evil, etc. Therefore, we conclude that his free will response will be to reject God, according to the limits described by Scripture itself.
How is it possible that an unbeliever who cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), who does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), and who is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20), simply "chooses" God?
It is God who appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14), grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29), grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26). It is God who causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3), draws people to Himself (John 6:44, 65), predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30) and adoption (Eph. 1:5) according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11), makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13), and works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).
Man Apart from God
Jer. 13:23, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil."
Rom. 5:10, "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
Rom. 8:7, "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so."
Total Depravity Verses
Gen. 6:5, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Gen. 8:21, "And the Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth."
Ecc. 7:29, “Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.”
Micah 7:4, "The best of them is like a briar, The most upright like a thorn hedge. The day when you post a watchman, Your punishment will come. Then their confusion will occur."
John 3:27, "John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given him from heaven."
Verses against free will choice of sinners:
John 1:13, "who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Rom. 9:16, "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
"the man" is singular
Rom. 9:18, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."

[Jude1:3]

5 minutes ago, Robert William said:

Man can freely choose anything except the gospel because he is born an enemy and hater of God.

This is ridiculous. God wouldn't hold people accountable for their acceptance or rejection of The Gospel if they didn't have a choice. 

Calvinism is Heretical Garbage. Wake Up.

[Robert William]

13 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said:

This is ridiculous. God wouldn't hold people accountable for their acceptance or rejection of The Gospel if they didn't have a choice. 

Calvinism is Heretical Garbage. Wake Up.

I gave you plenty of scriptural evidence but you reject it, who now is preaching garbage?

[Robert William]

4 hours ago, Jude1:3 said:

I don't believe Matt Slick is even really a Christian. He's a Deceiver and a Heretic.

Man can freely choose anything except the gospel because he is born an enemy and hater of God.

Total Depravity is the doctrine that fallen man is completely touched by sin and that he is completely a sinner. He is not as bad as he could be, but in all areas of his being, body, soul, spirit, mind, emotions, etc., he is touched by sin. In that sense he is totally depraved. Because man is depraved, nothing good can come out of him (Rom. 3:10-12), and God must account the righteousness of Christ to him. This righteousness is obtainable only through faith in Christ and what He did on the cross.

Total depravity is generally believed by the Calvinist groups and rejected by the Arminian groups.

Verses used in support of total depravity are as following. Please examined them to see if you think the doctrine is Biblical or not.

It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), loves darkness (John 3:19), does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), is ungodly (Rom. 5:6), dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1), by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3), cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), and a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
The unbeliever CAN respond to God. His response will be in accordance to Scripture that says that he cannot do good, is a hater of God, is full of evil, etc. Therefore, we conclude that his free will response will be to reject God, according to the limits described by Scripture itself.
How is it possible that an unbeliever who cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), who does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), and who is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20), simply "chooses" God?
It is God who appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14), grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29), grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26). It is God who causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3), draws people to Himself (John 6:44, 65), predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30) and adoption (Eph. 1:5) according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11), makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13), and works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).
Man Apart from God
Jer. 13:23, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil."
Rom. 5:10, "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
Rom. 8:7, "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so."
Total Depravity Verses
Gen. 6:5, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Gen. 8:21, "And the Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth."
Ecc. 7:29, “Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.”
Micah 7:4, "The best of them is like a briar, The most upright like a thorn hedge. The day when you post a watchman, Your punishment will come. Then their confusion will occur."
John 3:27, "John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given him from heaven."
Verses against free will choice of sinners:
John 1:13, "who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Rom. 9:16, "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
"the man" is singular
Rom. 9:18, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."

[enoob57]

The complexity of salvation to unregenerate man is of such while in flesh we cannot do so... as we proceed in our sanctification we do grow in deeper relatings to the complexity. However the Calvinist must redifine words to fit their Biblical view and that I will simply not do but wait at each place where my understanding leaves and wait upon God to enlarge me... to make an all out statement there is no human responsibility after the fall is not what the Bible teaches  ... and the simple logic of >a and not a cannot be true at the same time< as here indicates
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Love, Steven

[Couppy]

5 hours ago, Cletus said:

 Exo 7:23  And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also.

Now why would God take the time to mention that Pharaoh didn't set his heart to this?  And what if he did set his heart on it... if he didnt have a choice?  Why would God mention it? 

 

 

Exodus 7:21-23 NKJV states:

" The fish that were  in the river died, the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink the water of the river. So there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.  Then the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments; and Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.  And Pharaoh turned and went into his house. Neither was his heart moved by this."

It was mentioned in the bible that Pharaoh's heart was not moved by (set his heart to) the stinking of the water that had become undrinkable because his heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.  The question is what did the Lord say?  God has already said he would hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he can show his wonders.  As a result Pharaoh's heart was hardened and not moved by all the fish that died in the water.

[Jude1:3]

18 hours ago, Robert William said:

Man can freely choose anything except the gospel because he is born an enemy and hater of God.

False.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you..... • James 4:8

 

Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.  And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.    • Jeremiah 29:12-13

 

Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.  •Hebrews 3:15

 

God knows the choice we will make, but We don't know the choice we will make. There in lies the free will.

God gets all the glory for drawing us and saving us and yet we still have a choice.