The Protestant Reformation

[David1701]

1 hour ago, JohnDB said:

 

Well,

Just a notion I've been kicking around in my head...

We, as a group of believers, all understand certain aspects of theology a bit differently. 

If we are receptive to listening to others and understanding what they are trying to express then possibly our personal understanding can grow stronger and better than before. (Care taken that we aren't following a "wind of doctrine")

And truly you seem to be just such an individual who is studying history and culture and various things to improve your understanding of how God has worked miracles over the millenia. 

And if it weren't for others teaching you were "blind" to the truths that you now hold. 

But if someone showed you something different first, the subsequent "truths" would be impossible to install into your line of reasoning. 

 

And that's ONE of the reasons for the fracturing of the Catholic Church into so many of the various denominations. Each one with a different take on the subject of God and his Character. 

(Eyes to see and ears to hear)

All of this may not exactly be the ideal...but it's the goal of God to make the best vessel possible out of the clay He has to work with. ALL have a purpose and use otherwise God wouldn't have made us to begin with. (Lesson of the Potter)

So part of the reason people can't "see" or "hear" is that God has ordained them to a particular position and station...

Going against God's decree doesn't work. Like beating your head against a brick wall doesn't work. 

 

In America Catholics are very different than the rest of the world's Catholics. In some places you would swear that they are almost Methodist or Lutheran. 

You are clearly thinking through the issues, which is good.

It's true that heads do not beat down brick walls; but we don't know whether or not God will work a miracle; and we are to declare God's word anyway, whether they listen or refuse.

It's not that the Roman Catholic organisation was fractured (that's close to their propaganda, although I'm sure that's not your intent); rather, God delivered huge numbers of his people from spiritual Babylon; or, if you prefer, the Reformation was like a spiritual exodus.

Fracturing has happened, certainly, and it's not what should have happened; but rather a fractured body of Christ, than a Whore of Babylon, be it ever so united (although the "unity" is a commanded unity - "Believe the Magisterium, or else!").

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Nobody said:

By the way David1701, you will soon be rid of me as twice it has now happened that I have been banned from a certain thread. It seems to happen every time the "worthy Christians" run out of mud to throw my way, so I expect I will soon be locked out of this thread as well. Just hang in there son, soon you can kick and scream at me to your hearts content without being contradicted.

I don't want rid of you, I just want you to realise that Roman Catholicism is not genuine Christianity.  I'd love to see you delivered from it; but no-one can force you against your will.  God could work a miracle in your heart though and, if he did, there would be a thousand hallelujahs ringing out, from Christians and angels.

[Willa]

On 10/5/2018 at 2:01 PM, JTC said:

It was beautifully written Fidei, but we now need something almost like another reformation. Most people don't realize that Jesus insisted that God be obeyed. Every time I read the epistles I notice again and again that every writer is telling the people to obey God. I think the Christian world is at a critical juncture. I don't pretend to know what God will do with people who say they believe in Him but then live any way they please, but I don't think it's going to be good.

I think most people rely on what they are taught by teachers, pastors, preachers and their priests. I think, I hope, more and more preachers are finally telling the people they have to obey God. Paul used phrases like "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" so he must have believed it's essential that we obey God. Paul didn't say it would be easy and it's not. I'm trembling just by quoting Paul. But I believe we all need to hear this.    

"work out your salvation with fear and trembling" For God works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure.   That last part is the most important.  It is the work of the Holy Spirit to clean us up and change us into Christ's image.  Corrie tenBoom said it is a simple sinking into God's will, not some heroic effort.   2Co 3:18  And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

[A Christian 1985]

Edited by Omegaman 3.0 - Deleted video and Amazon link.
Sorry  A Christian 1985, we do not allow videos here, except in the video area of the forums, and we do not allow promoting of things for sale.

Also, I should point out, that you are off topic, the topic is the Protestant Reformation

CHAPTER ONE

 

THE AXIOM

 

I did not speak in secret, in a land of darkness;

I did not say . . . Seek me in chaos.

--(Isaiah 5:19 D.S.V.)

 

If a “#spiritual #universe” exists, there likewise must also exist laws or principles common to both such a “spiritual universe” and to the physical universe, in order for us to be able to perceive any manifestation of such a “spiritual universe.”

 

Practically speaking, this axiom means that it is possible to construct a #logical theory encompassing virtually every field of science that will explain the purpose behind everything known to man.    

Chapter Two

 

AN EXTRAPOLATION

 

“... before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.”        (Isaiah 43:10)

 

It is my contention that the inevitable and ultimate result of evolution is this: that somewhere, sooner or later, an entity would be evolved through either natural or artificial means which would no longer be subject to time.

 

What are the implications of such a conclusion?

 

      Such an entity would in all practicality be:

 

1.      #Omnipotent and

2.      #Omniscient and

3.      #Omnipresent.

 

Such an entity would, by definition, be God.

By no means am I intending to speculate about the origin of God.

Such speculation is vain at best and blasphemous at worst. My intention is to show that no matter what method that you employ to explain the existence of life; the inevitable implication is the existence and reality of God.

Summary of Chapter Two:

 

“The fool has said in his heart; there is no God.” (Psalm 12:1)

  TABLE OF CONTENTS

 

Chapter One.  The Axiom                                                    p.1         

 

Chapter Two.  An Extrapolation                                         p.3

 

Chapter Three.  The Logic of It All                                   p.11

 

I.                     Divine Purpose

II.                  The Necessity for a Secondary Will

III.               Free Will

IV.                Further Steps Necessary for the Attainment of

        Divine Purpose

V.                   Correlations to Sections I-IV:

        A.  Divine Purpose (I)

        B.  The Necessity for a Secondary Will (II)

        C.  Free Will (III)

        D.  Further Steps Necessary for the Attainment of

              Divine Purpose (IV)

 

Chapter Four.  What Is Man?                                            p.17      

 

I.          The Parts of Man

       A. Physical Body

       B.  The Human Soul

       C.   The Human Spirit

       D.   The Heart

II.   Ramifications of Free Will

III. The Effects of the Fall on Man

IV.               God’s Solution to the Fall: Christ

V.                  Regeneration

VI.               Transformation (and Transfiguration)

 

Chapter Five.  The Remote Past                                        p.53        

 

I.                    Spiritual Beings (Angels)

A.                  Abilities and Characteristics of Spiritual Beings

 B.         Present-Day Manifestations of the Fallen Angels                                               

 

 

II.                 Another Race

       A.  Abilities and Characteristics of Demons

       B.   The Origin of Demons

       C.   Present-Day Manifestations of Demons

       D.   The Source(s) of Para psychological Phenomena

 

Chapter Six.  Prehistory                                                     p.87    

 

I.                    The “Creation versus Evolution” Controversy; or:

               “Much Ado About Nothing”

II.                 The Methods Utilized in Divine Creation:

       A.   Evolution

       B.   Catastrophism

       C.   Direct Divine Intervention

 

Chapter Seven.  Past History: The World System         p.125

                                                                                

I.                   The Material System

      A.   The Origin of the Material System

      B.   The True Purpose of the Material System

II.                The Religious System

      A.   The Source of Religion

      B.   The World’s Religions

      C.   The Jewish Religion

      D.   Christianity, the Religion

 

Chapter Eight.  The Kingdom of God                             p.187

 

I.                   The Kingdom – Here Today in a Hidden Way

II.  The Church: The Expression of the Kingdom on the Earth

III. The Coming Full Manifestation of the Kingdom

 

Chapter Nine.  Future History: Revelation                    p.219

 

I.                   History from the Ascension of Christ to His Literal Return

A.                 History from the Ascension of Christ to the Beginning

            of the Tribulation

B.                 The Rapture

C.                 The Beginning of the Tribulation

D.                 The Antichrist and the False Prophet

E.                  Events Occurring during the Tribulation

F.                  Ar-Mageddon

G.                 The Future of the Nation of Israel

H.                 Some Indicated Predictions

I.         When Will These Future Events Probably Happen?

II.                The Judgment Seat of Christ

III.             The Millennial Kingdom

IV.              The Great White Throne Judgment

V.                 The New Jerusalem: The Ultimate Fulfillment of

      Divine Purpose

 

Chapter Ten.  Personal Application for the Reader      p.307

                                                                                

I.          Your New Life

II.            Clearance of the Past

III.            Household Salvation

IV. Growing in Christ

A.                 Eating in the Spirit

B.                 Drinking of the Spirit

C.                 Daily Life and Dealing with Your Conscience

D.                 Preaching the Gospel

E.                  Prayer

F.                  Maturing in Christ

V.  Seeking Fellowship

 

Appendices(I.-XIV.)                                                          p.337    

 

p.401     Bibliography                                                                   

 

Index of Footnotes                                                             p.403

 

 

 

[David1701]

On 8/20/2020 at 3:20 AM, Nobody said:

Jesus said to Peter: you are Rock and upon this Rock I will build my Church. To say that Jesus was speaking to Peter in the first half of the sentence and to someone else is in the second half is the most pathetic attempt at nullifying the Word of God I have ever heard.

Jesus said, "You are Petros (a stone or boulder), and upon this Petra (massive bedrock - a cliff) I will build my Assembly.".  The English translations usually make plain that there is a distinction, by using "Peter" for "petros" and "rock" or "Rock" for "petra".

To say that these both refer to Peter, is a serious error.

Quote

 

Also, Jesus said to Peter: "whatever YOU shall bind..loose.. shall be considered bound and loosed in heaven". The meaning of the plain words is so childishly simple. To twist this into "YOU shall declare bound or loosed whatever I shall bind or loose" is yet another pathetic attempt at nullifying the Word of God.

O, the wonders of Protestantism never cease!

 

Matt. 16:19 (EMTV) And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on the earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth will have been loosed in heaven."

The "will have been..." parts are future perfect tense, meaning that whatever Peter was to bind/loose on earth would already have been bound/loosed in heaven.  God is in charge, not man!

[Fidei Defensor]

On 10/3/2020 at 7:09 AM, David1701 said:

Jesus said, "You are Petros (a stone or boulder), and upon this Petra (massive bedrock - a cliff) I will build my Assembly.".  The English translations usually make plain that there is a distinction, by using "Peter" for "petros" and "rock" or "Rock" for "petra".

To say that these both refer to Peter, is a serious error.

Matt. 16:19 (EMTV) And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on the earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth will have been loosed in heaven."

The "will have been..." parts are future perfect tense, meaning that whatever Peter was to bind/loose on earth would already have been bound/loosed in heaven.  God is in charge, not man!

Indeed The Rock Jesus would build his Church on is The Cornerstone of Himself. 

[Anne2]

On 12/2/2018 at 1:34 PM, Michael37 said:

The early followers of Christ met in each others homes and weren't encumbered with the institutional baggage that has now accummulated.  You may be interested in this essay of mine composed for another site 11th June 2018:

 The Great Error Of Constantine:

Constantine, Roman Emperor from July 25th 306AD. to October 22nd 337AD., left a legacy of politicised institutional "christianity" which in some respects constituted an unhealthy partnership between the so-called church and the state.

 

This great error is a legacy which can be traced in its first instance to an act of Constantine whereby he forbade anyone outside the established church to meet for religious purposes, and enforced this with what were the first confiscations of the property of those who did.

 

According to the writings of Eusebius Pamphilius of Caesaria, an advisor to Constantine, the emperor waited until just before his death to be baptised so as not to risk sinning afterward and as a consequence losing his salvation, such was his belief that baptism was the seal of salvation by which immortality was conferred.

 

Constantine and Licinius, who controlled the Balkans, met in Milan 313 AD to form an agreement to treat Christians benevolently within the Roman Empire, and the ensuing Edict of Milan gave Christianity a legal status, thereby laying the groundwork for the politicised institutional "christianity" that came of age on 27 February 380AD., when a later Roman Emperor, Theodosius, succeeded in making "Nicean Christianity" the State religion.

 

The so-called "Edict of Thessalonica" declared the Nicene Trinitarian Christianity to be the only legitimate imperial religion and the only one entitled to call itself Catholic. Theodosius described other Christians as "foolish madmen" and ended official state support for the traditional polytheist religions and customs. Once again all meetings other than those of "Catholic Christians", in officially sanctioned places, were banned.

 

Of this "state of affairs" historian William Jones writes in his book, "The History Of The Christian Church",  that the Scriptures were now no longer the standard of the Christian faith but the decisions of councils and fathers; religion was propagated not by the apostolic methods of persuasion accompanied with the meekness and gentleness of Christ, but by imperial edicts and decrees; nor were gainsayers to be brought to conviction by reason and Scripture but to be persecuted and destroyed.

 

With the blueprint in place for state enforced sanctions against perceived enemies of the church, the legacy of politicised institutional "christianity" ironically served the Reformation well, a claim upheld by R.K.McGregor Wright, who states in his book, "No Place For Sovereignty...", that "the entire process of the Reformation took place in the context of state churches, with secular power supporting the Reformers and protecting their gains."

 

 

Didn't Luther have a secular ruler agree with him and therefore protect him? How is this so different than what went on in the early Church? The reformers had state powers which supported them also.

[Justin Adams]

The Reformation left us with sun-day, easter (not pentecost), xmas from RCC dogma and a whole host of pagan aberrations.

The scriptures were conformed to the rewritten Hebrew text and omitted many books that the LXX included. This was due to Luther and Calvin who thought they should be the ones to think for us all.

The older Qumran manuscripts proved many of the Augustinian ideas wrong. Even the Vulgate with its many errors was considered Holy writ for hundreds of years.

Today, few people are taught to think and study; they follow the Dallas Theological Seminary and their take on things of the Faith. Their Dispensational thought is both wrong and destructive. Any pre-mil doctrine detracts from the current deity of Christ and the fact He is now ruling and reigning from His Throne as High Priest and King of Kings. All has be put under his feet right now, but the futurist dogma contradicts these truths and pushes them out to the future, robbing the present of His Power thru His People today.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, Anne2 said:

 

Didn't Luther have a secular ruler agree with him and therefore protect him? How is this so different than what went on in the early Church? The reformers had state powers which supported them also.

Yes, I did say the efforts of Constantine to politicise and institutionalise Christianity under state control ironically served the reformers well, Luther being a prominent reformer. 

Many denominations are papacies in disguise.

[Anne2]

On 8/17/2021 at 3:37 AM, Michael37 said:

Yes, I did say the efforts of Constantine to politicise and institutionalise Christianity under state control ironically served the reformers well, Luther being a prominent reformer. 

Many denominations are papacies in disguise.

I wonder why Luther and other reformers  just didn't embrace orthodoxy.

“The Greeks [Orthodox] . . .  are not heretics or schismatics but the most Christian people and the best followers of the Gospel on earth.”

“Yet he [the Pope] lifts his shameless, blasphemous mouth to heaven and slanders the Greek [Orthodox] church, claiming that it is schismatic and apostate. It is he himself who is the chief cause and sole author of all schisms and divisions. This is plain as day and all historical records show it.”

“Second, they revile, slander, and anathematize the Greeks [Orthodox], and all others who do not submit to the pope, as though these were not Christians.”

A quote from Luther