Once Saved always Saved, Is A Doctrine Of Devils

[simplejeff]

3 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

 

3 hours ago, simplejeff said:

http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/

Andrew Murray

Abide in Christ
Absolute Surrender
Be Perfect

Oh....wow.... ah, I was kinda hoping for a bible passage that indicates we are to obey Jesus in order to be saved

Thanks for the indication of the library though, I didn't know it was available.

 

As always, test everything.  All things in worthychristianlibrary have been tested and proven,

yet still test in constant prayer as you read,   if ANYTHING is not in HARMONY with SCRIPTURE, do not accept it.

-----------

When anyone is born again, not by blood, nor by the will of man, nor of the flesh, 

but born of God,    their whole being, whole heart and soul and mind and spirit REJOICES GREATLY with all the angels in heaven,

and seeks (while walking in the light, while abiding in the light, while living IN UNION WITH JESUS ALL THE TIME)

to follow Jesus, to do all that the Father says to do, and nothing else,  never, no never, anything contrary to the Father .

ALL SCIRPTURE,  ALL THE BIBLE,  is in utter, complete, and perfect HARMONY and AGREEMENT,  in God's Light.

No one IN THE LIGHT,   ever seeks or chooses to willingly follow the devil. (unless , well,  then they are no longer in the light)

[Mike 2]

24 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

When anyone is born again, not by blood, nor by the will of man, nor of the flesh, 

but born of God,    their whole being, whole heart and soul and mind and spirit REJOICES GREATLY with all the angels in heaven,

and seeks (while walking in the light, while abiding in the light, while living IN UNION WITH JESUS ALL THE TIME)

to follow Jesus, to do all that the Father says to do, and nothing else,  never, no never, anything contrary to the Father .

ALL SCIRPTURE,  ALL THE BIBLE,  is in utter, complete, and perfect HARMONY and AGREEMENT,  in God's Light.

No one IN THE LIGHT,   ever seeks or chooses to willingly follow the devil. (unless , well,  then they are no longer in the light)

Mat 19:25  When the disciples heard it, they were exceedingly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 
Mat 19:26  Looking at them, Jesus said, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” 

simpleJeff.....I agree with what you are saying,ultimately, but we are human and as such, you speak the impossible. If our salvation depended on our constantly doing what you are saying we would be saved, then unsaved, then saved, then unsaved as we step out of the light and back in to darkness and back into the light.

For me, I relate to what you're saying as it pertains to our Kingdom walk, not salvation.  How we can be walking in that light and how sometimes we aren't how stepping out of that  puts us in darkness (into sin), uncertainty and from readily feeling Gods love.

Paul had this to say about it, and I'm pretty sure Paul didn't lose his salvation.

Rom 7:15  For I don’t know what I am doing. For I don’t practice what I desire to do; but what I hate, that I do. 
Rom 7:16  But if what I don’t desire, that I do, I consent to the law that it is good. 
Rom 7:17  So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me. 
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing. For desire is present with me, but I don’t find it doing that which is good. 
Rom 7:19  For the good which I desire, I don’t do; but the evil which I don’t desire, that I practice. 
Rom 7:20  But if what I don’t desire, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me. 
Rom 7:21  I find then the law, that, to me, while I desire to do good, evil is present. 
Rom 7:22  For I delight in God’s law after the inward man, 
Rom 7:23  but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. 
Rom 7:24  What a wretched man I am! Who will deliver me out of the body of this death? 
Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ, our Lord! So then with the mind, I myself serve God’s law, but with the flesh, the sin’s law. 

Nice to know I have a safety net for when I slip and that I don't lose my salvation.
There has to be some indicator here that even though we do sin, even though we do not always do what God has put on our hearts, we are still saved.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Mike 2

[simplejeff]

14 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

simpleJeff.....you speak the impossible. If our salvation depended on our constantly doing what you are saying we would be saved, then unsaved, then saved, then unsaved as we step out of the light and back in to darkness.

If someone can take the time to read the Bible, and if they don't understand it, read it again, until God grants thee understanding 0f Scripture (which the BIBLE says HE IS PLEASED TO DO,  for infants/little ones) (and of course HE HIDES SALVATION from the scholars and religious leaders, et al ,  according to HIS WORD as this is well pleasing to HIM) .....

Who wants to be a chid of God TODAY,  

then walk with the devil tonight/ tomorrow / ever ?

What happens to the luke warm ? 

What happens to those who "choose" each day to either serve the devil,  or maybe if it suits them then serve God ?

Everything "impossible" even the disciples exclaimed about in Scripture, and Jesus explained to those who stayed with Him,

and the Father opens the understanding of His Word (Scripture) as the Father Pleases to do, to whomever He is Pleased to .....

i.e. everything I post is found in Scripture, (that I know of) , and also may be found clearly described

from Scripture in the worthychristianlibrary.com on this site .

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Your meaning of "Grace"is not correct. 

IS it.  then lets at least take a look at the bibcal word for word use of what Grace is.

FOR the grace of GOD which brings salvation has appeared , TEACHING ,   oh yeah, TEACHING us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts

to be walking soberly righteously and godly in this present world.

JESUS came to set us FREE from SIN.  FREE.   HE came to set the captives free.

Being then made FREE from sin , YE became servants to RIGHTEOUSNESS

if you like I will FLOOD this place with SOUND BIBLE doctrine to support this.    Its not men nor their ideas I follow, THEY get tested the same AS I SHOULD

ITS JESUS ONLY that gets followed.    Grace draws us, for its the SPIRIT of God that draws us to Christ , to FAITH IN HIM.

by which we have CONTINUED access into this grace wherin we walk.     Jesus came to set captives free, NOT TO FEEL FREE or saved IN SIN, FREE FROM ITS POWER.

You forget or you don't want the imputed righteousness that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. 

If you seek to escape Hell with your own righteousness and not the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, you are in the mode of living as a captive to fear, and you your way to aliviate this fear is to maintain a continue righteous living as you see it your self. The fear of sin and disobedience is hanging over you, the way it was hanging over the Jews in the old testiment . 

When someone disobey the Sabath it was over for him, he was cut off. 

When someone was disobey the ten commandments or the cleansing rules it was over till he made sucrifice to reconsiled him self, if he did not obey the leven bread, it was over for him for that year. 

If he commit adultery it was over for him alltogether if they stone him to death. He die in his sin. 

Jesus Christ have set us free from the fear of sin, sin can not give us death, we have his righteousness, 

O! Sin where is your sting? 

The sting of Sin was death in the old covenant for the people of God the children of Abraham, the Jews plus....

Those people did not have the righteousness of God and could not have it through the Law. 

They only had the righteousness of the Law. 

And did not have the life of God. 

The life of God and the righteousness of God came through Jesus Christ. 

We are in the New Covenant, do not live with the fear and carry the burden of the people of the old covenant, from whom the righteousness of the Law was required. 

And were without a Heavenly inheritance till Jesus Christ inherit Heaven and not only for himself for them also, and everyone who believe in him. 

Remember that Adam, Noah, and the others even Enoch were not sircumsize . and did not have the Mosaic Law. 

And did not have the sacrifices of animals for the forgivness of sins that requires the priesthood to do the rituals, between them and God. 

Jesus Christ is our peach with God. 

Our own righteousness may judge us, but Jesus righteousness justifies us. 

Do not be afraid of sin to give you death when you are in the life of Jesus Christ. 

In the new covenant we do not have the life of the Law.

We have the life of Jesus Christ. 

In this earth we have the darkness that can affect our fellowship with the light, the Holy Spirit. 

Upon repentance and or death the darkness leaves us. 

Upon death can not follow us in Heaven. 

Our sins are not counted against us. 

No one goes to Hell because of sin, but because they have refuse to believe in Jesus Christ and remain in their sins and death.

To refuse to believe Jesus Christ is death , seperation from God .

To believe in Jesus Christ is life to God. In the name of Jesus Christ. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Your meaning of "Grace"is not correct. 

IS it.  then lets at least take a look at the bibcal word for word use of what Grace is.

FOR the grace of GOD which brings salvation has appeared , TEACHING ,   oh yeah, TEACHING us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts

to be walking soberly righteously and godly in this present world.

JESUS came to set us FREE from SIN.  FREE.   HE came to set the captives free.

Being then made FREE from sin , YE became servants to RIGHTEOUSNESS

if you like I will FLOOD this place with SOUND BIBLE doctrine to support this.    Its not men nor their ideas I follow, THEY get tested the same AS I SHOULD

ITS JESUS ONLY that gets followed.    Grace draws us, for its the SPIRIT of God that draws us to Christ , to FAITH IN HIM.

by which we have CONTINUED access into this grace wherin we walk.     Jesus came to set captives free, NOT TO FEEL FREE or saved IN SIN, FREE FROM ITS POWER.

You forget or you don't want the imputed righteousness that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. 

If you seek to escape Hell with your own righteousness and not the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, you are in the mode of living as a captive to fear, and you your way to aliviate this fear is to maintain a continue righteous living as you see it your self. The fear of sin and disobedience is hanging over you, the way it was hanging over the Jews in the old testiment . 

When someone disobey the Sabath it was over for him, he was cut off. 

When someone was disobey the ten commandments or the cleansing rules it was over till he made sucrifice to reconsiled him self, if he did not obey the leven bread, it was over for him for that year. 

If he commit adultery it was over for him alltogether if they stone him to death. He die in his sin. 

Jesus Christ have set us free from the fear of sin, sin can not give us death, we have his righteousness, 

O! Sin where is your sting? 

The sting of Sin was death in the old covenant for the people of God the children of Abraham, the Jews plus....

Those people did not have the righteousness of God and could not have it through the Law. 

They only had the righteousness of the Law. 

And did not have the life of God. 

The life of God and the righteousness of God came through Jesus Christ. 

We are in the New Covenant, do not live with the fear and carry the burden of the people of the old covenant, from whom the righteousness of the Law was required. 

And were without a Heavenly inheritance till Jesus Christ inherit Heaven and not only for himself for them also, and everyone who believe in him. 

Remember that Adam, Noah, and the others even Enoch were not sircumsize . and did not have the Mosaic Law. 

And did not have the sacrifices of animals for the forgivness of sins that requires the priesthood to do the rituals, between them and God. 

Jesus Christ is our peach with God. 

Our own righteousness may judge us, but Jesus righteousness justifies us. 

Do not be afraid of sin to give you death when you are in the life of Jesus Christ. 

In the new covenant we do not have the life of the Law.

We have the life of Jesus Christ. 

In this earth we have the darkness that can affect our fellowship with the light, the Holy Spirit. 

Upon repentance and or death the darkness leaves us. 

Upon death can not follow us in Heaven. 

Our sins are not counted against us. 

No one goes to Hell because of sin, but because they have refuse to believe in Jesus Christ and remain in their sins and death.

To refuse to believe Jesus Christ is death , seperation from God .

To believe in Jesus Christ is life to God. In the name of Jesus Christ. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Your meaning of "Grace"is not correct. 

IS it.  then lets at least take a look at the bibcal word for word use of what Grace is.

FOR the grace of GOD which brings salvation has appeared , TEACHING ,   oh yeah, TEACHING us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts

to be walking soberly righteously and godly in this present world.

JESUS came to set us FREE from SIN.  FREE.   HE came to set the captives free.

Being then made FREE from sin , YE became servants to RIGHTEOUSNESS

if you like I will FLOOD this place with SOUND BIBLE doctrine to support this.    Its not men nor their ideas I follow, THEY get tested the same AS I SHOULD

ITS JESUS ONLY that gets followed.    Grace draws us, for its the SPIRIT of God that draws us to Christ , to FAITH IN HIM.

by which we have CONTINUED access into this grace wherin we walk.     Jesus came to set captives free, NOT TO FEEL FREE or saved IN SIN, FREE FROM ITS POWER.

You forget or you don't want the imputed righteousness that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. 

If you seek to escape Hell with your own righteousness and not the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, you are in the mode of living as a captive to fear, and you your way to aliviate this fear is to maintain a continue righteous living as you see it your self. The fear of sin and disobedience is hanging over you, the way it was hanging over the Jews in the old testiment . 

When someone disobey the Sabath it was over for him, he was cut off. 

When someone was disobey the ten commandments or the cleansing rules it was over till he made sucrifice to reconsiled him self, if he did not obey the leven bread, it was over for him for that year. 

If he commit adultery it was over for him alltogether if they stone him to death. He die in his sin. 

Jesus Christ have set us free from the fear of sin, sin can not give us death, we have his righteousness, 

O! Sin where is your sting? 

The sting of Sin was death in the old covenant for the people of God the children of Abraham, the Jews plus....

Those people did not have the righteousness of God and could not have it through the Law. 

They only had the righteousness of the Law. 

And did not have the life of God. 

The life of God and the righteousness of God came through Jesus Christ. 

We are in the New Covenant, do not live with the fear and carry the burden of the people of the old covenant, from whom the righteousness of the Law was required. 

And were without a Heavenly inheritance till Jesus Christ inherit Heaven and not only for himself for them also, and everyone who believe in him. 

Remember that Adam, Noah, and the others even Enoch were not sircumsize . and did not have the Mosaic Law. 

And did not have the sacrifices of animals for the forgivness of sins that requires the priesthood to do the rituals, between them and God. 

Jesus Christ is our peach with God. 

Our own righteousness may judge us, but Jesus righteousness justifies us. 

Do not be afraid of sin to give you death when you are in the life of Jesus Christ. 

In the new covenant we do not have the life of the Law.

We have the life of Jesus Christ. 

In this earth we have the darkness that can affect our fellowship with the light, the Holy Spirit. 

Upon repentance and or death the darkness leaves us. 

Upon death can not follow us in Heaven. 

Our sins are not counted against us. 

No one goes to Hell because of sin, but because they have refuse to believe in Jesus Christ and remain in their sins and death.

To refuse to believe Jesus Christ is death , seperation from God .

To believe in Jesus Christ is life to God. In the name of Jesus Christ. 

 

[Bro.Tan]

5 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

If we take this passage in its context we get the meaning of it.

The coming of Jesus and his sacrifice for all that believe presents the question "well what about all those in the past that never had the chance to hear the Gospel because they were before Jesus time"? Paul answers this in the verses you have quoted, this all falls comfortably into the category of having faith in God . God knows the hearts of all men and knows if they are truly seeking Him. (I can't help but wonder how this applies to the person secluded on an island in the middle of the ocean or in the jungles of the Amazon totally detached from the rest of the world.)

Christs sacrifice includes the forgiveness of ALL sin and the fulfilling of that forgiveness is in a persons faith in Gods righteousness. Paul is saying that all in the past that had faith in God are covered by the blood as well.

Paul writes extensively about faith in God in both Romans and Hebrews. check out Abraham (Rom 4:3)           

Those of us from Christ on to the present have the benefit of having the gospel revealed to us whereas the people before Jesus could only hope.

This is not talking about OUR past sin (although it includes them). It is talking about the sin of the PEOPLE in the past. 

Once we have been saved we then start to work that outwards. Paul is saying to then start working outward what you believe inward. For most of us that goes against the sinful culture we have been living in, that takes some determination in many cases and results in some scary situations as we confront opposition to our new spiritual life. I can think of many times when I worked my salvation outwards in some very awkward and counter cultural circumstances. Fear and trembling, definitely....but what a high knowing that the Holy Spirit was working through me!

It's all part of our sanctification.

 

Coming under the blood of Jesus is when one gets baptized.  Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16): Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come. This is just one of the things one must do. See Jesus did his part, but we have things we must do, and that's the point I'm trying to get people to understand.

Paul said in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.  

 

 

[Mike 2]

14 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

If someone can take the time to read the Bible, and if they don't understand it, read it again, until God grants thee understanding 0f Scripture (which the BIBLE says HE IS PLEASED TO DO,  for infants/little ones) (and of course HE HIDES SALVATION from the scholars and religious leaders, et al ,  according to HIS WORD as this is well pleasing to HIM) .....

Who wants to be a chid of God TODAY,  

then walk with the devil tonight/ tomorrow / ever ?

What happens to the luke warm ? 

What happens to those who "choose" each day to either serve the devil,  or maybe if it suits them then serve God ?

Everything "impossible" even the disciples exclaimed about in Scripture, and Jesus explained to those who stayed with Him,

and the Father opens the understanding of His Word (Scripture) as the Father Pleases to do, to whomever He is Pleased to .....

i.e. everything I post is found in Scripture, (that I know of) , and also may be found clearly described

from Scripture in the worthychristianlibrary.com on this site .

I think this is more about walking with God than it is about losing our salvation.

Jesus talked about building our houses and then some of our work being burned up and that even though we may have our salvation, some may have nothing else

[simplejeff]

10 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

I think this is more about walking with God than it is about losing our salvation.

Jesus talked about building our houses and then some of our work being burned up and that even though we may have our salvation, some may have nothing else

Well,  per the title of this thread, it is as well about multitudes of people who are lost, yet deceived into thinking they are saved, and they willingly (wittingly or unwittingly)  remain in the dark,  on the wide road to destruction, 

for whatever reason,  (several disclosed in God's Word), 

and perhaps, whether much prayer,  or GOD'S GRACE,  something changes,    SO THEY WAKE UP FROM BEING DEAD,

and do not remain unsaved,   deceived, headed for judgment .....

[Mike 2]

9 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Coming under the blood of Jesus is when one gets baptized.  Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16): Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come. This is just one of the things one must do. See Jesus did his part, but we have things we must do, and that's the point I'm trying to get people to understand.

Paul said in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.  

 

 

Quote Bro.Tan......Coming under the blood of Jesus is when one gets baptized. Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)

It is not baptism that washes our past sins, it is the last part of the verse you quoted that does...... "calling on the name of the Lord"

Rom 10:9  that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. The confessing with the mouth can be related to the outward expression of something inward.

Bro.Tan quoted....(Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.    This verse is not about losing our salvation, it is about us not receiving Gods blessings. Think about it...why would God bless us when we are sinning, that would just encourage sin.

NOTE in the following verse 23, that they can be grafted back in. This isn't about salvation but about living in the kingdom of God.

I am noticing that you are taking most of the verses I am responding to out of context, that's called proof texting. you need to read the passage around these verses or you will not get their complete meaning.