Should I leave my church?

[Sanctum]

Hello everyone,

I joined this forum at the suggestion of a friend, because I'm grappling with a very difficult issue and can't tell what God's will is. Everyone I can turn to "in real life" has their own preconceived ideas and they're all based on different interpretations of the Bible.

First of all, a little background. I was raised in an evangelical megachurch, grew disillusioned as a teenager, and left the faith. Later I got to know a family online from a conservative Anabaptist faith, who helped renew my interest in God. I recommitted my life, researched Anabaptist beliefs including nonresistance to evil, and started wearing dresses and headcoverings. A couple of years later, I decided to move away from home and join a conservative Mennonite church.

The church was wonderful. Small and tight-knit, full of young families. Evidence of love and the Holy Spirit was everywhere. My family resisted because of the strict standards of the church, but they admitted that the people were lovely. 

Five years have gone by. I am now 26, still single and living with the minister and his wife. I have been very ill the last several years and could only manage a simple part-time job.

Now, here's the part that's troubling me. The church has strict "standards" and applications of Scripture, which I agreed to uphold when I was baptized, but which are now becoming constricting and keeping me stuck. Some of the standards, to give you an idea, include how to dress, down to the size of print on our dresses and the number of pleats in our headcoverings, and "plain" suit with no tie for men; no instrumental music; cars in only black, white or earth tones; no TV or radio (which I agree strongly with); no organized sports; no labour unions. Many of the standards are good and beneficial. The thing is, while people will say that they're not required for salvation, if you don't obey you have a spirit of rebellion, which calls your salvation into question, and you lose your membership in the church.

There are two standards that, in my case, are making things very difficult. In my church education is not encouraged past grade 10. I was public schooled and had a little college before joining; I dropped out for health reasons. Most people who have grown up Mennonite have learned a trade early on, and girls are mostly encouraged to either teach school or get married and raise a family. Neither is an option for me. So I'm stuck working at my part-time minimum wage job without opportunity to better the situation. 

The other standard involves insurance. The church teaches that taking insurance shows a lack of trust in God, and that the church should help each other. So we don't take any insurance that's not specifically required by law. House, car, crop insurance - nothing. We even get special exemptions from public health insurance (I live in Canada) and all our medical fees are billed directly to us.

Last year I spent a month in hospital and racked up a very large bill. The church paid almost all of it, and they have helped me other times as well. The problem is, while I'm grateful, I now feel indebted to the church without any way at all to pay them back. This has caused a lot of guilt and anxiety and ever since then I've felt myself starting to pull away from the others.

Part of my issues have involved deep depression (from a biological source) that tends to isolate me and make it hard to follow any regular rhythms in daily life. Recently my mentor, a lady from church that I trusted very much, told me to my face that I was a hypocrite because I admitted to not feeling joy in my Christian life and "going through the motions," and that I wasn't having personal devotions every day. That hurt. A lot. 

The thing is though, I think she might be partly right. I've learned during my time here to rely on the standards, to look right on the outside and hope it will filter inward. It hasn't, and instead the inward emptiness is starting to show through. I'm losing touch with God.

If I would leave the church, and possibly join the Baptist church in town, I could go back to school and do something with my life to help others, instead of taking and taking and never being able to give back. I'm beginning to believe that the standards might be okay for someone raised in the church, but in my case they're doing more harm than good.

And yet I love my church dearly. I love everyone there and would miss them terribly. It would never be the same if I withdrew my membership. And people in town, who know me as a Mennonite, would have questions I'm not sure how to answer without throwing the church in a bad light. Theologically I'm 100% Mennonite and would never quite fit in the Baptist church... but I never quite fit in the Mennonite church either.

I've prayed and asked advice and so far the struggle hasn't abated. I'm leaning toward going but it will be so, so hard. And didn't I vow at baptism to be faithful to the church? It's so confusing!

Anyway I'm sorry for the long letter here. Please pray for me if you think of it, or direct me to Bible passages that can help clarify this.

Thank you and God bless,

"Sanctum"

[Sanctum]

My question is, why would God lead you somewhere and then lead you back away again?

[Justin Adams]

The ways of the Lord are sometimes hard to figure out. I have read and replied to your other topic so have another suggestion.

If you can get Smith Wigglesowrth's complete book. The one with the green cover sold thru Amazon. I think you would be quite interested to read some of his amazing ministry and accounts of him 'moving church'. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Justin Adams

[simplejeff]

28 minutes ago, Sanctum said:

My question is, why would God lead you somewhere and then lead you back away again?

(always go when God says GO,  and stay when He says STAY) (Like Isreal did in the desert)

In some cases, it is simply this: 

[About 32,600,000 results  ] 

Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to the next ...    biblehub.com/matthew/10-23.htm - Cached - Similar    Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. ... When they persecute you in one town, escape to another.

 

In other cases, it is simply this:

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would show to Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.…Berean Study Bible 

 

In every case,  obey Yahweh's Spirit to your spirit

or as Jesus Says "My Sheep Know My Voice and Follow Me"

 

[BK1110]

I have a problem with any group or sect that uses guilt to try to force obedience/loyalty to the church/group. Our obedience is to be to God and His word, not any group formed by man. Frankly there seems to be a lot of troubling legalism with the Amish and Mennonites. It reminds me of the Jews in Jesus' time, and with many of them who attempted to force Jewish customs on new Christians.

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/essentials-unity-non-essentials-liberty-all-things/

When you said "The thing is, while people will say that they're not required for salvation, if you don't obey you have a spirit of rebellion, which calls your salvation into question, and you lose your membership in the church." that really struck me. If they're not required for salvation, then they're not. If you don't agree with extra-Biblical non-essentials that the church/group, and not the Bible, teaches, it's very wrong IMO to use those to try to guilt trip you into worrying about your salvation.

Well, I don't know if any of that will be helpful. You're in a very tough situation. I would just stress again and again that it's God's will. Not your pastor's will, your friend's will, your will, your church's or group's will, that counts. That may not be very helpful, but I would encourage you to just remember that daily, to pray daily, to get in the Word daily. From your post, it sounds like you've admitted to just going through the motions and losing touch with God. Above and beyond everything else, I'd advise you to work on that, to draw in close to Him again, to pray and study every day, and you might be surprised at how you feel His will and leading coming into your heart again.

God bless!

[Heleadethme]

On 11/27/2017 at 4:47 PM, simplejeff said:

(always go when God says GO,  and stay when He says STAY) (Like Isreal did in the desert)

In some cases, it is simply this: 

[About 32,600,000 results  ] 

Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to the next ...    biblehub.com/matthew/10-23.htm - Cached - Similar    Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. ... When they persecute you in one town, escape to another.

 

In other cases, it is simply this:

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would show to Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.…Berean Study Bible 

 

In every case,  obey Yahweh's Spirit to your spirit

or as Jesus Says "My Sheep Know My Voice and Follow Me"

 

To slaves:  but if you can obtain your freedom then rather do so  (1 Cor. 7:21).   You were bought with a price, be not ye slaves of men. (1 Cor. 7:23)

Thankfully our sister, not being under an old covenant, is able to freely repent of any improper vows that go against the spirit and will of God and be forgiven and freed from bondage.  Glory hallelujah........Jesus did not die in vain!!  Where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom! and life!   Where the spirit of religion is it only brings heartbreaking bondage and death.

 

[Justin Adams]

I worked for a Machiavellian type of person. He taught me a great deal. He would say, "the power is on the table, all you gotta do is pick it up!"

So do what the Lord leads you to do. Do not listen to your head, your emotions etc.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and He will direct your paths WHEN you acknowledge Him in everything you do.

 

[Heleadethme]

On 11/27/2017 at 12:59 AM, Sanctum said:

Hello everyone,

I joined this forum at the suggestion of a friend, because I'm grappling with a very difficult issue and can't tell what God's will is. Everyone I can turn to "in real life" has their own preconceived ideas and they're all based on different interpretations of the Bible.

First of all, a little background. I was raised in an evangelical megachurch, grew disillusioned as a teenager, and left the faith. Later I got to know a family online from a conservative Anabaptist faith, who helped renew my interest in God. I recommitted my life, researched Anabaptist beliefs including nonresistance to evil, and started wearing dresses and headcoverings. A couple of years later, I decided to move away from home and join a conservative Mennonite church.

The church was wonderful. Small and tight-knit, full of young families. Evidence of love and the Holy Spirit was everywhere. My family resisted because of the strict standards of the church, but they admitted that the people were lovely. 

Five years have gone by. I am now 26, still single and living with the minister and his wife. I have been very ill the last several years and could only manage a simple part-time job.

Now, here's the part that's troubling me. The church has strict "standards" and applications of Scripture, which I agreed to uphold when I was baptized, but which are now becoming constricting and keeping me stuck. Some of the standards, to give you an idea, include how to dress, down to the size of print on our dresses and the number of pleats in our headcoverings, and "plain" suit with no tie for men; no instrumental music; cars in only black, white or earth tones; no TV or radio (which I agree strongly with); no organized sports; no labour unions. Many of the standards are good and beneficial. The thing is, while people will say that they're not required for salvation, if you don't obey you have a spirit of rebellion, which calls your salvation into question, and you lose your membership in the church.

There are two standards that, in my case, are making things very difficult. In my church education is not encouraged past grade 10. I was public schooled and had a little college before joining; I dropped out for health reasons. Most people who have grown up Mennonite have learned a trade early on, and girls are mostly encouraged to either teach school or get married and raise a family. Neither is an option for me. So I'm stuck working at my part-time minimum wage job without opportunity to better the situation. 

The other standard involves insurance. The church teaches that taking insurance shows a lack of trust in God, and that the church should help each other. So we don't take any insurance that's not specifically required by law. House, car, crop insurance - nothing. We even get special exemptions from public health insurance (I live in Canada) and all our medical fees are billed directly to us.

Last year I spent a month in hospital and racked up a very large bill. The church paid almost all of it, and they have helped me other times as well. The problem is, while I'm grateful, I now feel indebted to the church without any way at all to pay them back. This has caused a lot of guilt and anxiety and ever since then I've felt myself starting to pull away from the others.

Part of my issues have involved deep depression (from a biological source) that tends to isolate me and make it hard to follow any regular rhythms in daily life. Recently my mentor, a lady from church that I trusted very much, told me to my face that I was a hypocrite because I admitted to not feeling joy in my Christian life and "going through the motions," and that I wasn't having personal devotions every day. That hurt. A lot. 

The thing is though, I think she might be partly right. I've learned during my time here to rely on the standards, to look right on the outside and hope it will filter inward. It hasn't, and instead the inward emptiness is starting to show through. I'm losing touch with God.

If I would leave the church, and possibly join the Baptist church in town, I could go back to school and do something with my life to help others, instead of taking and taking and never being able to give back. I'm beginning to believe that the standards might be okay for someone raised in the church, but in my case they're doing more harm than good.

And yet I love my church dearly. I love everyone there and would miss them terribly. It would never be the same if I withdrew my membership. And people in town, who know me as a Mennonite, would have questions I'm not sure how to answer without throwing the church in a bad light. Theologically I'm 100% Mennonite and would never quite fit in the Baptist church... but I never quite fit in the Mennonite church either.

I've prayed and asked advice and so far the struggle hasn't abated. I'm leaning toward going but it will be so, so hard. And didn't I vow at baptism to be faithful to the church? It's so confusing!

Anyway I'm sorry for the long letter here. Please pray for me if you think of it, or direct me to Bible passages that can help clarify this.

Thank you and God bless,

"Sanctum"

Dear beloved sister in the Lord.........please read what I wrote in response to simplejeff.  And I understand that false sense of obedience very well, as well as false manipulative authority, having been brought up Catholic, as well as for my own reasons I was vulnerable to that.....and even thought of becoming a nun at one stage.   The Lord sometimes gives us our desires, if we are drawn to have fellowship with certain people, or have a desire to attend a particular church, or whatever it may be, He sometimes just allows us to and makes a way and opens that door.  He even gives Satan his desires......eg, with Job, and with sifting Peter.....so how much more His own children at times, but always and only in His own wisdom.  Over all and above all,  He is sovereign and able to work everything together for the good of those who love Him, so be encouraged in that truth.  I find He uses these things in many mysterious ways to help us grow and learn, as well as deliberately using them in a very tailor-made way of unearthing things in our heart that need healing or to be put right.  Inner conflict that false religion causes can easily result in torment and depression, it's an old familiar friend, but it is at least a sign that the Lord is working to separate us from the wrong......because when someone is fully given over to that spirit, they are not in conflict but have a false peace.........and Jesus is the answer, always, when we remember that He died for our sins and rose again to give us life, not death and torment, and we get our eyes back on Him in whom we do believe, thanks be to God.  So we cry out to Him....and I find He is very patient and that we are under His grace, and it is His righteousness that is imputed to us, not of our own.  He will keep in perfect peace whose eyes are fixed on HIM, not our own righteousness....so that is our battle to try and get there and stay there.

Religion gets our eyes off Jesus and puts them on ourselves, on what we are doing right and wrong, and this is one way it puts faith to death, which is what you are going through......but fear not, you are not fallen away since you are still struggling to stay alive.....this false spirit of religion is trying to choke your faith to death, cutting off your air supply of the Spirit,  but it has not succeeded.  You only need to repent of following man and even for self-righteousness if that is involved (as it has been with me) and submitting to man above God.......this can be a bit complicated and might require some healing and deep repentance to go hand in hand with it........but I encourage you to seek the Lord about it, as I know you are, and specifically ask for Him to show you specific scriptures that apply to your situation, and even if He doesn't right away,  keep seeking Him and trust that He is working in your life even in the dry season when you cannot see or feel Him.  He is walking with us THROUGH this valley and one day we will find He has led us through to the end of it, one way or another, as we just keep seeking Him.  I am not even all the way through in my own life concerning these things but hope maybe can at least help to point you in the right direction, and we can pray for each other.

I think for one thing, the Lord is getting us ready to resist and battle the antichrist delusion.......He is calling His little flock out of the churches for our protection from it, but also in order to strengthen and prepare us for that mammoth battle ahead.  Unfortunately the churches are antichrist in the way they do things and are succumbing to that false spirit in our day as this is the Lord sending it to judge His house first........even sadly Mennonite and Anabaptists.  It is the same spirit that is alive and well in the bowels of the Roman Catholic Church...........there is a woman on you-tube, Sister Charlotte.......she has a horrific but eye-opening testimony about these things........nuns literally kept prisoner in convents and the abuses they undergo and how they are manipulated through that false obedience......in our day and age in civilized North America......and how is it that the law does nothing about it (question for another day)........but if you would like to just search her name and listen to what she says.........for me it helped me to DISCERN that false spirit of obedience in myself and false authority in the churches.   Her testimony is very hard to bear, so gird up for it sister.......but it turns over the rocks so to speak, so that we can see what lives under cover of darkness.  And i believe this may be the antichrist false religious spirit that is soon to be released to have sway upon the whole world once again, working hand in hand with a false kind of obedience.  Oh I know it well!  I wish I had words to explain it better, but I just don't yet.  But see if the testimony of Sister Charlotte as she is called, can help you to see and understand, to help you in your own life as you endeavour to bring everything you are struggling with to the Lord who is for you not against you in this battle, and truly may the grace and the peace of our Lord and SAVIOUR be with you.  Amen, He is not only our Lord, but our Saviour!

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Heleadethme

[Sanctum]

Thank you so much, Heleadethme. 

When I spoke to the ministry and told them I was withdrawing my membership, they asked, "Don't you see this is a step away from God? You are deceived."

It's frightening to hear such a thing from the men of God I have come to highly respect and look to for advice. 

So to read your post just now... thank you. I believe God was speaking to me through you just now. This is only a step away from Him if I allow it to be. And it can be - many people leave the Mennonites and, lacking any moral compass of their own, lose their way almost immediately in the world. But if I can remember what I've learned, and that God led me into and out of this purposefully, and seek Him carefully, especially in this time of transition - this will indeed be a step toward Him.

[Heleadethme]

15 minutes ago, Sanctum said:

Thank you so much, Heleadethme. 

When I spoke to the ministry and told them I was withdrawing my membership, they asked, "Don't you see this is a step away from God? You are deceived."

It's frightening to hear such a thing from the men of God I have come to highly respect and look to for advice. 

So to read your post just now... thank you. I believe God was speaking to me through you just now. This is only a step away from Him if I allow it to be. And it can be - many people leave the Mennonites and, lacking any moral compass of their own, lose their way almost immediately in the world. But if I can remember what I've learned, and that God led me into and out of this purposefully, and seek Him carefully, especially in this time of transition - this will indeed be a step toward Him.

Glory, glory to the Lord, amen, I'm blessed by your desire to follow the Lord and to keep His way, Sanctum.   Psalm 130 for your encouragement, and also Psalm 126........may the Lord help to make our crooked paths straight, He is faithful and He is strong, and as we keep seeking and endeavouring to follow Him, He will lead us through.  He has given me those Psalms before for encouragement in direct answer to prayers for this, and again today........confirmation and very encouraging!