Daniel 11:36 Posted December 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 6, 2017 Revelation 3:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 6, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 6, 2017 10 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Revelation 3:10 Be nice to know to whom, or what conversation, this is directed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory37 Posted December 6, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 722 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Davida said: Not saying this is on this thread but in Christendom there is an weirdly aggressive increasing attack against those who hold to the Pre-Trib rapture. No one used to care much before if someone held to the pre-Trib ,now it seems to really tick some people off and I ask myself why the emotion about it, why does it matter? The same people don't come out fervently against wolves that are trying to lead people away from Salvation which should be more important then this minor doctrinal disagreement. God is not the author of confusion or strife, or the inexplicable unwarranted anger -the adversary is. Satan hates the pre-trib because that is when *the Church* is out of his reach then he turns his focus upon Israel. Satan hates who God loves. Hello Davida, there is no weird aggressive attack on the pre-trib rapture. It is what I believe that people are waking up to TRUTH. Me personally, I will no longer blindly follow after men's doctrine or regurgitate their lies. I will no longer just believe what I am taught. I will test the Scriptures, asking the Holy Spirit to reveal Truth as I read the Word of God and to open my eyes. Let him who has ears to listen. Are you willing to let go of indoctrination of men and test the Scriptures by reading and asking God to help you understand? Another thing, it is the pre-trib rapture people that start attacking because it is the established thinking. They start the character assassination. They do this when the scriptures they hold start to unravel and can't holdup to Truth. This is not a "minor doctrinal disagreement." THIS IS TRUTH VS A LIE. We no longer should allow the LIE of the Pre-Trib rapture keep going. Satan loves the pre-trib rapture theory because it keeps the Christians in thinking they are going to not have to face any testing of their faith in Jesus and have a free ticket out of here when things get bad. But when the pre-trib rapture doesn't happen, many shall fall away. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Edited December 6, 2017 by ForHisGlory37 adding more 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted December 6, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Online Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA6Vcuas5-g Michael Heiser is a great prophesy teacher. Please take a look at his ideas about JOINING, or SPLITTING scriptures in order to 'create' a per-trib position. The reason so many are concerned about pre-tribbers is that the terrible feelings of betrayal and uncertainty that will assail them when they find out there is no 'rescue' from the persecutions and trials to come. As Diaste said, we would much rather just get whisked away before it all goes pear-shaped. Satan ACTUALLY loves the pre-trib position since he will be there to point the finger and say, 'see your God has abandoned you'. Many will fall away and be overcome when the real bad times begin. I would just like to put out this thought: WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN THERE IS NO PRE-TRIB RAPTURE? Edited December 6, 2017 by Justin Adams 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted December 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 6, 2017 What will you do when there is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory37 Posted December 7, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 722 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, Diaste said: I was on the same path in the beginning; Hal Lindsey and all that. Several things about the doctrine were unclear, jumbled, sketchy even. Like you, when I began to search scripture to prove the truth of pretrib I found a great deal of weakness. Yeah, we have brought up the origin of the doctrine before but it's always good to remind everyone. Personally, I do wish there was a different way. A pretrib rapture is appealing which is why I suppose it's widely believed. I do not like the fact there will so much suffering and death before Jesus returns. It must be as the Lord commands and I trust in His word. I also know those that are faithful will be watched over, guarded, through this time. I trust in His provision. Dear Diaste, I think that many are fearful of dying and that is why the pre-trib rapture is so appealing. But God says He is Perfect Love that casts out ALL FEAR, NOT SOME, NOT A LITTLE, BUT ALL FEAR. We will be walking in power as believers because Jesus said we will be doing even greater things than He did when He walked the earth. (which is WOW, WOW, WOW!!!) Satan doesn't want that, he is very fearful of believers knowing the authority they have in Christ Jesus and walking in the Power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, he is terrified. To God, being fearful is a wicked thing. In Revelation 21:8 But the FEARFUL AND UNBELIEVING; AND THE ABOMINABLE, AND MURDERERS, AD THE WHOREMONGERS, AND SORCERERS, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. God actually calls out the fearful and unbelieving first of many that He says will experience the second death. He is very serious about fear and belief. Why? Because it questions His very being. Fear and unbelief is saying God isn't who He says He is, He isn't all-knowing, or powerful, He has no authority, or He is powerless to save us. But we know we can believe in Him. We can trust God's Perfect Love. God is Love. I think when we have to face death during the tribulation period, I believe it will be like Stephen, we won't even feel pain because we will be seeing Jesus coming to get us to take us home. We will be looking into His glory and there will be no fear, no pain, and have peace that surpasses all understanding. Praise the name of Jesus!!! Like this new song called Peace Be Still by The Belonging Co feat. Lauren Daigle Peace be still, say the word and I will, set my feet upon the sea, til I'm dancing in the deep, Lord Peace be still you are here, so it is well, even when my eyes can't see, I will trust the voice that speaks, Peace, Peace over me! Edited December 7, 2017 by Steve_S Removed video. Please post videos in the appropriate video forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 7, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2017 8 hours ago, ForHisGlory37 said: Dear Diaste, I think that many are fearful of dying and that is why the pre-trib rapture is so appealing. But God says He is Perfect Love that casts out ALL FEAR, NOT SOME, NOT A LITTLE, BUT ALL FEAR. We will be walking in power as believers because Jesus said we will be doing even greater things than He did when He walked the earth. (which is WOW, WOW, WOW!!!) Satan doesn't want that, he is very fearful of believers knowing the authority they have in Christ Jesus and walking in the Power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, he is terrified. To God, being fearful is a wicked thing. In Revelation 21:8 But the FEARFUL AND UNBELIEVING; AND THE ABOMINABLE, AND MURDERERS, AD THE WHOREMONGERS, AND SORCERERS, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. God actually calls out the fearful and unbelieving first of many that He says will experience the second death. He is very serious about fear and belief. Why? Because it questions His very being. Fear and unbelief is saying God isn't who He says He is, He isn't all-knowing, or powerful, He has no authority, or He is powerless to save us. But we know we can believe in Him. We can trust God's Perfect Love. God is Love. I think when we have to face death during the tribulation period, I believe it will be like Stephen, we won't even feel pain because we will be seeing Jesus coming to get us to take us home. We will be looking into His glory and there will be no fear, no pain, and have peace that surpasses all understanding. Praise the name of Jesus!!! Like this new song called Peace Be Still by The Belonging Co feat. Lauren Daigle Peace be still, say the word and I will, set my feet upon the sea, til I'm dancing in the deep, Lord Peace be still you are here, so it is well, even when my eyes can't see, I will trust the voice that speaks, Peace, Peace over me! I agree, Pretrib is a way to save their own lives. It's a profound statement about the power of belief. People think if they just believe something it's true. It doesn't matter if there is any support for the belief. Then they move on to ignore any facts contradicting the dogma. Personal belief is a powerful thing. Of course in many cases personal belief is a huge problem, pretrib for example. The doctrine disallows a great many truths in scripture, not just rapture timing, and attacks the very foundation of God's plan, our destiny, and the nature of mankind as well as our relationship with the Father and His character. Pre trib is clearly a doctrine of devils and leads millions astray. The Father set me free from the teaching of men to be a defender of the faith and a warrior for His truth; in mighty name of Jesus I will labor in this capacity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 7, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2017 19 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Revelation 3:10 As before, and given the objective, scholarly treatment all scripture deserves, it was proven Rev 3:10 in no way suggests 'a removal from one place to another'. 'Tereo', the Greek term translated 'keep' is defined as 'watch over' or 'guard'. In Rev 3:10 Jesus is telling us; because we kept his word he will guard us during the moment of our greatest trial. It's also problematic to grab a single cherry of scripture, consuming the dessert before eating the full meal. In other words there are many passages refuting pretrib claims, even the ones advanced proving pretrib can be refuted through cursory study. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, Diaste said: I agree, Pretrib is a way to save their own lives. It's a profound statement about the power of belief. People think if they just believe something it's true. It doesn't matter if there is any support for the belief. Then they move on to ignore any facts contradicting the dogma. Personal belief is a powerful thing. Of course in many cases personal belief is a huge problem, pretrib for example. The doctrine disallows a great many truths in scripture, not just rapture timing, and attacks the very foundation of God's plan, our destiny, and the nature of mankind as well as our relationship with the Father and His character. Pre trib is clearly a doctrine of devils and leads millions astray. The Father set me free from the teaching of men to be a defender of the faith and a warrior for His truth; in mighty name of Jesus I will labor in this capacity. I guess it is easier to assign values to people and assume their motives than it is to provide substantive responses How exactly does pre trib views "lead people astray?" Does lead them to satanism or atheism? Do they convert to Buddhism because they are pre-trib? I mean, it is easy rhetoric to say that someone is led astray by pre-trib views, but what does that mean? Do they forsake the Lord? How is it doctrine of devils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psalms37:4 Posted December 7, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 569 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 75 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2017 25 minutes ago, Diaste said: Pre trib is clearly a doctrine of devils and leads millions astray. The Father set me free from the teaching of men to be a defender of the faith and a warrior for His truth; in mighty name of Jesus I will labor in this capacity. Just out of curiosity Diaste what exactly is your view on the rapture? Feel free to post scriptures too if you think they support your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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