GEOLOGY REVEALS: One Creation, One Restoration and Two Global Floods

[HAZARD]

35 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Then maybe you can explain how there was death before the Fall when Scripture says differently as Rom 5:12 makes clear.

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
(Rom 5:12)
 

Hi Yowm,

Romans 5:12, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This Scripture shows that the consequences of Christ's obedience extend as far as Adams disobedience. Gentiles are descendents of Adam and partake of his sin and its consequences, so they are free to partake of the redemption of Christ.

From Adam all men derive their beings (Acts 17:26). The whole race was in his loins when he sinned. He was its spiritual, moral, and physical fountainhead, and its sole representative. He did not act as a single person but as the whole race. When he fell he sinned for all. When God contracted with him, it was a contract for the whole race. His progeny became a part of the covenant and blessings if he obeyed and of the curses if he sinned.

In John 5:14, Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Death did not come by personal sin, as it did in the case of Adam. Death passed upon all men because of Adams sin (Gen. 2:17; Romans 5:12-21.

[Dennis1209]

On 12/21/2017 at 3:35 PM, HAZARD said:

 

 

Hi hmbld, as a free moral agent, you can believe what ever you like, no worries at all. I prefer to believe what the many Scriptures combined and taken as a whole on this subject teach. 

There were two great floods on the Earth, 1. we shall call Lucifers flood brought upon the Earth because of lucifers rebellion, and 2. Noahs flood caused by the rebellion of man. Many Scriptures show there was a great difference between them, all we need do is read every one and believe what we read.

 

The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifers rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

The original creations of God include the heavens and the Earth and all things therein as first brought into being. This period is summed up in Gen. 1:1. thus: "In the beginning God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth." This refers to the dateless past, and takes in only a part of the creative ages, that is, from the beginning of creation until the chaotic period of Gen. 1:2 when the Earth and its first inhabitants were destroyed by the first flood. Notice during Noahs flood not all inhabitants , vegetation, animals, day, night were destroyed.

There are many other passages in Scripture that refer to that period (Job. 38; Ps. 8:3-8; 19:1-6; Prov. 8:22-31; John 1:3,10; Acts 17:24-26; Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-12; 11:3; Rev. 4:11).

Rev. 4:11).

In Scripture, all instances of obscuring the sun and bringing darkness are the result of judgment, not creation-which is also true of the two universal floods (Genesis 6:8-8:22; Exodus 10:21-23; Isaiah 5:30; Jeremiah 4:23-26).

All predictions of future darkness depict judgment (Matthew 8:12; Matthew 24:29-31; Rev. 6:12-17; Rev. 8:12; Rev. 9:2; Rev. 16:10; Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:30-3:16; Amos 5:18-20).

Could we say that Genesis 1:2 is the only place in Scripture where darkness and a universal flood are not an act of judgment? If it isn't an option, then Genesis 1:2 proves that there was a pre-Adamite world destroyed by darkness and flood.

No one questions that Noah's flood was an act of judgment, or doubts the existence of free moral agents before the flood actually came. Why then doubt the existence of a pre-Adamite world which was destroyed by the darkness and flood of Genesis 1:2?

Well, not to get into any arguments or what I actually think. But...

I read a very interesting and enlightened book awhile back titled "Earth's Earliest Ages", authored by G. H. Pember. I carefully checked out his work with scripture, getting the exact meanings of Hebrew words, etc. In an effort to believe or disbelieve much of what he proposes. At the very least, one owes himself a look at the old earth theory vs. the new earth theory. I came away with something challenging to ponder about, and pointed out things in scripture you read dozens of times that you miss. One example: on the days of creation, God calls everything good, with the exception of the firmament, and that's explained also. HINT: Where do the princes and powers of the air still reside?

One other tidbit I find interesting on dating the earth. Time seems to have been created at Genesis 1: 2, so prior to that if the earth existed, it was outside of time, therefor how would you something that resides outside of time?

I don't believe Pember's work and intentions are tied to or associated with Darwin or evolution theory in any way, during the time frame this book was written (1876). I do think this concept of an old earth is relatively new since the 19th century. I've not read anything proposing an old earth from the early church fathers or anything prior to Pember.

No matter what side of the new / old Earth issue you're on, Pember's book will make you think and look more closely at the scriptures and dig deeper into the Word of God. And that's a good thing.

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

It may not be a salvation issue, but it is a 'compromise issue', a little compromise here, a lttle there, until one has no faith.

It is a debate issue. Nothing to take too seriously. Life if too short for that....yes?

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

It may not be a salvation issue, but it is a 'compromise issue', a little compromise here, a lttle there, until one has no faith.

It is an issue of the authority of Scripture. And that can lead to a salvation issue.

[missmuffet]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

It is an issue of the authority of Scripture. And that can lead to a salvation issue.

No, I think you are over reacting.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, missmuffet said:

No, I think you are over reacting.

Not really.   If Paul was wrong about coming into the world through Adam, then it is salvation issue. It means that the Bible is not infallible in its teaching related to sin and salvation.

The Gap Theory states that sin predates Adam, which contradicts Rom. 5:12-21 which is the very heart of Paul's' teaching on salvation.  

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Not really.   If Paul was wrong about coming into the world through Adam, then it is salvation issue. It means that the Bible is not infallible in its teaching related to sin and salvation.

The Gap Theory states that sin predates Adam, which contradicts Rom. 5:12-21 which is the very heart of Paul's' teaching on salvation.  

Yes, I understand this has something to do with the gap theory but maybe not. Quasar has not been on-line and he needs to explain. I want to hear what he has to say. He has been such an excellent teacher.

[missmuffet]

On 12/20/2017 at 8:45 PM, Quasar93 said:

[Or one creation; destruction and restoration for days 1-4 and new creation for days 5-6] Here is startling proof -- from the Bible and geology -- demonstrating not only two widely separated creations, but two world-wide destructions! Few have understood this astonishing truth! Now, it stands revealed for all to see!

Now for the first time, one of history's most fascinating stories can be told. The KEY to understanding the amazing history of the earth has been discovered. Contrary to what millions have been led to believe -- the true facts of science and the truth of your Bible agree! Theologians have long kept hidden this surprising truth. It conflicts with their theology. Atheistic professors have suppressed it. Science has refused to believe it. Only a few understand where the key which unlocks the amazing geologic history of the earth is. It has been in the FIRST TWO VERSES OF YOUR BIBLE all these years -- and you probably never noticed it.....

Proof of Pre-Adamic Flood

Notice the true facts of geology. The pre-Adamic catastrophe involved water. Laid down first by the swirling waters were the smaller sea creatures. They appear in the deepest sedimentary layers. The larger creatures of the land, by comparison, were able to flee to the higher hills. They were not drowned until the rising floodwaters spread over, then covered, the entire earth. Evolutionary geologists have discerned proof of this pre-Adamic flood. They know that rising floodwaters first swept up the ocean-bottom dwellers, the trilobites and the brachiopods, and other shell creatures of the sea. These ocean-bottom dwellers were scattered over wide areas. Later other sedimentary rocks with land life were laid down on top of them. That is exactly why fossils of sea creatures, such as the trilobite, SUDDENLY APPEAR as fossils in the DEEPEST sedimentary rocks.

Not knowing the Bible reveals a pre-Adamic catastrophe destroyed all life, an amazed evolutionary geologist exclaimed, "... the SUDDEN APPEARANCE of ABUNDANT FOSSILS in the Cambrian {lowest rocks in which life is found} is remarkable" (Dunbar, "Historical Geology", p. 125). {Emphasis ours in entire article.}
Why were these evolutionary geologists astounded to discover that complex fossils appear suddenly in the deepest sedimentary rocks?

The theory of evolution has led the geologists to assume the older and deeper rocks were laid down over many millions of years. They assumed that in the deepest rocks they would find very simple fossil remains of evolving forms. Obviously, because of the theory of evolution they expected to find simple fossil forms that clearly showed the steps of evolution taking place. Because evolution has never taken place, they failed to find simple pre-trilobite forms!
As the well-known evolutionary geologist Stokes said, "... we do not understand why fossils of marine invertebrates (without backbones) suddenly became plentiful ..." (Stokes, "Essentials of Earth History", p. 186)

By L. E. Torrance.

[Edit by Quasar: Scriptural facts supporting the above:  Gen.1:2; 7:20; 8:3-5; Psalms 24:2; 2 Pet.3:5-6 and Proverbs 8:24].

"But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.  By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed."  2 Pet.3:5-6  NIV.

From: http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/flood.htm

 

Quasar93

Quasar, do you think this gets into the gap theory? Why or why not?

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Yes, I understand this has something to do with the gap theory but maybe not.

It is EXACTLY the Gap theory that He is promoting. 

Quote

Quasar has not been on-line and he needs to explain. I want to hear what he has to say. He has been such an excellent teacher.

Yes, he does need to explain and refute the arguments put to him.  

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

So far Quasar has been an excellent teacher. I have not seen anything that I would have a problem with. I am like a sponge and I am always ready to learn from someone who is teaching the true word of God.

I have a novel idea is anyone's interested in old earth vs. new earth...

If we all could pick up a copy of G.H. Pember's book, "Earth's Earliest Ages" and we all read it. We could pick it apart and discuss it precept by precept, and discuss by scripture where he's right or wrong. His book made quite an impression with me but some of it is supposition and conjecture. In my opinion, it's the best book ever written on the old earth theory. 

Admittedly I've never read anything about the old earth theory that predates his 1876 book, about the time frame of Darwin and his theory of evolution. But his logic of scripture and interpretation of scripture is very interesting at the very least. 

It appears to me old earth vs. new earth believers are close to equally divided. I wanted to study both sides of the issue from the Bible first, then from scholars and expositors to reach my own conclusion. Since this old earth theory seems relatively new, a little over a century, I have to keep a red flag close by just in case. So, in conclusion, I'm really not sure on the age of the earth.