Exile

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

http://biblehub.com/matthew/21-38.htm

As I said,the heir is christ.You believe the vineyard belongs to the tenants.Thats not so.They were  exiled before and will be exiled again when the lord and his holy ones arrive to receive their inheritance.

No, no.   You are not reading the parable correctly.

In Matt 21, the "tenants" were the religious leaders of Israel (Mat 21:45  And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them).

So the the question is what the vineyard is.   The vineyard is not the land of Israel.  Is the nation/people of Israel.  It is the ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Jesus did not say that the vineyard is "the Jews" which is what you seem to be implying.   That would false.

The vineyard is the nation and Jesus gave the authority that belonged to the Pharisees to His disciples who would be the apostles of the Church.

There will be no more exile, since modern Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy concerning the restoration of Israel.   Concerning the current restoration the Bible says this:

And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.  (Amo 9:14-15)

So, there is not going to be another exile.

 

God made promises the twelve tribes that He MUST fulfill to them and part of that is the Land per an eternal covenant.   Most of those promises will be fulfilled in the Millennium.   God's hand is on Israel and He is restoring them to their land as He promised.   They are in process as prophesied by Ezekiel in Ezek. 36.   He promises a restoration of the fruitfulness of the land and He promises the people of Israel will be restored to the Land.   And He also promises a spiritual awakening to Jesus as the Messiah while they are in the Land.   Right now we are between vv. 24 and 25 of Ezek. 36.   The prophecy is reiterated in Ezek. 37.

Edited January 1, 2018 by shiloh357

[Shilohsfoal]

50 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, no.   You are not reading the parable correctly.

In Matt 21, the "tenants" were the religious leaders of Israel (Mat 21:45  And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them).

So the the question is what the vineyard is.   The vineyard is not the land of Israel.  Is the nation/people of Israel.  It is the ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Jesus did not say that the vineyard is "the Jews" which is what you seem to be implying.   That would false.

The vineyard is the nation and Jesus gave the authority that belonged to the Pharisees to His disciples who would be the apostles of the Church.

There will be no more exile, since modern Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy concerning the restoration of Israel.   Concerning the current restoration the Bible says this:

And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.  (Amo 9:14-15)

So, there is not going to be another exile.

 

God made promises the twelve tribes that He MUST fulfill to them and part of that is the Land per an eternal covenant.   Most of those promises will be fulfilled in the Millennium.   God's hand is on Israel and He is restoring them to their land as He promised.   They are in process as prophesied by Ezekiel in Ezek. 36.   He promises a restoration of the fruitfulness of the land and He promises the people of Israel will be restored to the Land.   And He also promises a spiritual awakening to Jesus as the Messiah while they are in the Land.   Right now we are between vv. 24 and 25 of Ezek. 36.   The prophecy is reiterated in Ezek. 37.

Modern day Israel is the fulfillment of gods promise to gather Israel into the promised land.

When Christ comes with those he has gathered to the promised land,that is when Israel is gathered.

As for those who do not belong to christ.They go into exile.

 

http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-5.htm

Those who are with  the lord receive the kingdom.That is the lord gathering Israel into his own land.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Shilohsfoal said:

Modern day Israel is the fulfillment of gods promise to gather Israel into the promised land.

And who are YOU defining as, "Israel?"

 

Quote

 

As for those who do not belong to christ.They go into exile.

These Israelis go into exile. 

http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-5.htm

 

 

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (Zec 14:4-5)

That is not an exile.   The text indicates that they are fleeing for the purpose of safety.  Nowhere does the text say they are being exiled.  You are adding to the text, something that is not there.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

And who are YOU defining as, "Israel?"

 

 

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (Zec 14:4-5)

That is not an exile.   The text indicates that they are fleeing for the purpose of safety.  Nowhere does the text say they are being exiled.  You are adding to the text, something that is not there.

 

http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm

The exile is mentioned in a previous verse.

Yes they are fleeing for their lives.They wont be returning.As zech 14:2 days.They go into EXILE.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

http://biblehub.com/matthew/8-12.htm

In this verse, Jesus talks about the coming exile.

When the holy ones come with Christ, the subjects in that kingdom are castout.Jesus said many will come from the east and west but the subjects of that kingdom will be cast out.There is no going back.

 

They wouldn't be able to survive there anyway. 

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm

The exile is mentioned in a previous verse.

Yes they are fleeing for their lives.They wont be returning.Ad zech 14:2 days.They go into EXILE.

 

First of all, it simply says that 1/2 Jerusalem will go into captivity, not half of those living in Israel.   It is not like the exile of Babylon or the exile of diaspora in 70 AD.

Zechariah 14 coincides with Revelation 18 at Armageddon.  

The word "for" exile as used here means to be taken into captivity.  And it does not say that those who are believers are the ones taken into captivity.  You are imposing things on the text that are not there.  

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, no.   You are not reading the parable correctly.

In Matt 21, the "tenants" were the religious leaders of Israel (Mat 21:45  And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them).

So the the question is what the vineyard is.   The vineyard is not the land of Israel.  Is the nation/people of Israel.  It is the ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Jesus did not say that the vineyard is "the Jews" which is what you seem to be implying.   That would false.

The vineyard is the nation and Jesus gave the authority that belonged to the Pharisees to His disciples who would be the apostles of the Church.

There will be no more exile, since modern Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy concerning the restoration of Israel.   Concerning the current restoration the Bible says this:

And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.  (Amo 9:14-15)

So, there is not going to be another exile.

 

God made promises the twelve tribes that He MUST fulfill to them and part of that is the Land per an eternal covenant.   Most of those promises will be fulfilled in the Millennium.   God's hand is on Israel and He is restoring them to their land as He promised.   They are in process as prophesied by Ezekiel in Ezek. 36.   He promises a restoration of the fruitfulness of the land and He promises the people of Israel will be restored to the Land.   And He also promises a spiritual awakening to Jesus as the Messiah while they are in the Land.   Right now we are between vv. 24 and 25 of Ezek. 36.   The prophecy is reiterated in Ezek. 37.

Just a little additional commentary on what you wrote shiloh357.

I've noticed that when the Hebrews / Jew didn't occupy the land due to captivity / diaspora, the land became a waste and drought lingered. Even Mark Twain visiting Israel in the late 1800's commented on what a waste the land was, and not capable of supporting much.

Fast forward to 1948 to present. Israel has the best soil and conditions in the world to produce the best vegetables and fruit the world has ever witnessed. They have such an abundance coming from that tiny piece of property, they export it globally and is a great source of their economy. When Israel started to regather home early in the 20th century during the time around the Balfour Declaration, the land was transforming and healing. Just something I wanted to throw out there to show the Lord's work in progress. 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

http://biblehub.com/matthew/8-12.htm

In this verse, Jesus talks about the coming exile.

When the holy ones come with Christ, the subjects in that kingdom are castout.Jesus said many will come from the east and west but the subjects of that kingdom will be cast out.There is no going back.

When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 8:10-12)

That verse is talking about those expected that they would be part of the Kingdom.  Jesus speaking somewhat tongue in cheek, here.   The point is that simply being Jewish and part of the chosen people was not sufficient on its own to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is not talking about the so-called "exile" of Zechariah 14.   You are mixing contexts and that is just sloppy exegesis.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

First of all, it simply says that 1/2 Jerusalem will go into captivity, not half of those living in Israel.   It is not like the exile of Babylon or the exile of diaspora in 70 AD.

Zechariah 14 coincides with Revelation 18 at Armageddon.  

The word "for" exile as used here means to be taken into captivity.  And it does not say that those who are believers are the ones taken into captivity.  You are imposing things on the text that are not there.  

I didn't say anything about believers taken into captivity.

The beievers are with christ when he comes to Jerusalem.The "holy ones"

.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Just a little additional commentary on what you wrote shiloh357.

I've noticed that when the Hebrews / Jew didn't occupy the land due to captivity / diaspora, the land became a waste and drought lingered. Even Mark Twain visiting Israel in the late 1800's commented on what a waste the land was, and not capable of supporting much.

Fast forward to 1948 to present. Israel has the best soil and conditions in the world to produce the best vegetables and fruit the world has ever witnessed. They have such an abundance coming from that tiny piece of property, they export it globally and is a great source of their economy. When Israel started to regather home early in the 20th century during the time around the Balfour Declaration, the land was transforming and healing. Just something I wanted to throw out there to show the Lord's work in progress. 

Yes, you are correct.  The modern state of Israel cannot explained apart from the hand of God working to fulfill His word to restore them and to keep all of His promises to them.