The governers of Judah

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Sister said:

When the second temple was being built, Ezra discovered that that many of them had taken strange wives of the gentiles, and had children by them, when they were STRICTLY commanded not to.  They were sent away. 

Was this strict procedure followed around 1948?  I don't know maybe they did, but can you please verify seeing as you are an expert at this.  And if this strict procedure was not kept, then there can not be any true bloodlines, especially of Judah.

And as prophecy forewarns, that the Son of Perdition will build his palace in Jerusalem, and he will will rule Jerusalem, does this make him Judah now because he is the ruling authority? 

Will the real Judah stand up please?  Those who's hearts after after God and follow Christ's ways.

The genealogical records were destroyed in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed along with the accompanying buildings in the temple precinct.  The modern state of Israel is a secular, not a religious country, so no they did not set about to decide who is from the tribe of Judah.

You have a very unbalanced obsession with the Tribe of Judah and it has led you to make some very erroneous claims about Judah.    Jesus is not Judah and Christians are not Judah.  

[Heleadethme]

9 hours ago, Sister said:

 Hebrews 7:2   To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Hi Dennis1209

There is only one King of righteousness, and one King of peace.

Melchizedek is the "Word of God" "translated" into flesh. 

His goings forth have been of old........He has made appearances on earth before His birth in physical body.  And the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, I'm not sure but I think we can understand that God exists outside of time and that is why the Lamb could make angelic appearances before He was slain in the time realm.  Melchidezek I believe is one such appearance and another that comes to mind is the angel of the Lord speaking to Moses from the burning bush.

[Guest shiloh357]

26 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

His goings forth have been of old........He has made appearances on earth before His birth in physical body.  And the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, I'm not sure but I think we can understand that God exists outside of time and that is why the Lamb could make angelic appearances before He was slain in the time realm.  Melchidezek I believe is one such appearance and another that comes to mind is the angel of the Lord speaking to Moses from the burning bush.

Melchizedek was not an "angelic" appearance.   At best, was a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus.   That is completely different than "the angel of the Lord."

[Heleadethme]

8 hours ago, Sister said:

 

Ezra 10:10   And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.

Ezra 10:11   Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.

Ezra 10:12   Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do.

Ezra 10:13   But the people are many, and it is a time of much rain, and we are not able to stand without, neither is this a work of one day or two: for we are many that have transgressed in this thing.

Ezra 10:14   Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.

 
Ezra 10:16   And the children of the captivity did so. And Ezra the priest, with certain chief of the fathers, after the house of their fathers, and all of them by their names, were separated, and sat down in the first day of the tenth month to examine the matter.

Ezra 10:17   And they made an end with all the men that had taken strange wives by the first day of the first month.

 

When the second temple was being built, Ezra discovered that that many of them had taken strange wives of the gentiles, and had children by them, when they were STRICTLY commanded not to.  They were sent away. 

Was this strict procedure followed around 1948?  I don't know maybe they did, but can you please verify seeing as you are an expert at this.  And if this strict procedure was not kept, then there can not be any true bloodlines, especially of Judah.

And as prophecy forewarns, that the Son of Perdition will build his palace in Jerusalem, and he will will rule Jerusalem, does this make him Judah now because he is the ruling authority? 

Will the real Judah stand up please?  Those who's hearts after after God and follow Christ's ways.

 

 

 

 

For some time now I have understood in a general way that the church follows the same pattern as ancient Israel, Israel being ensample to the church, but I haven't studied it all out in the specifics as you are bravely attempting to look into.  One thing that I wondered about is the split between northern tribes of Israel and Judah/Benjamin/Jerusalem, wondering if the latter speaks to the last days remnant.  Seems to me the church has split in recent years with so many leaving and scattered to follow the Lamb wherever He goes, and if so judah might be symbolic of the remnant of faithful.  Remembering that the glory left the northern tribes at Shiloh and it was given to Judah/Jerusalem.  Northern tribes were then judged and taken captive, which we also seem to be seeing now with the apostate church.  Anyway, Sister, just mentioning it in case it is useful as breadcrumbs leading somewhere, especially as concerns the last days situation and coming of the Lord, which I believe is relevant to our time........we are sure looking for His coming and the first place we need to look for it I assume is in God's word, and blazing a trail to Zion in His word, and may the Lord bless and help you on your quest. 

[Heleadethme]

9 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Melchizedek was not an "angelic" appearance.   At best, was a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus.   That is completely different than "the angel of the Lord."

Yes, pre-incarnate appearance of Christ is what I believe Melchizedek probably was who had no beginning or end of life.....along with other appearances in times of old........since scripture does tell us his goings forth have been from of old.   As you seem 'obsessed' with the subject of His physical body brother I thought it might be useful to try and understand how He could make pre-incarnate angelic (glorified body) appearances before He was born and slain in the realm of time.....because God and heaven exist outside of the earthly time realm, so to speak....and He was slain from the foundation of the world.  Just some thoughts to put in the pot, in case some of it has merit and is helpful, and please do with it whatever seemeth good to you, but just know that I will not enter into an argument about it on this thread.  You seem to think that everyone who opens their mouth is making pronouncements and teaching, but we need to distinguish when people are just knocking on a door trying to learn and seeing if a particular door leads somewhere or not.  Also called thinking out loud......learning is an activity, it requires our active participation, it takes humility too for obvious reasons, which I'm blessed to see in a few.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Heleadethme said:

Yes, pre-incarnate appearance of Christ is what I believe Melchizedek probably was who had no beginning or end of life.....along with other appearances in times of old........since scripture does tell us his goings forth have been from of old.   As you seem 'obsessed' with the subject of His physical body brother I thought it might be useful to try and understand how He could make pre-incarnate angelic (glorified body) appearances before He was born and slain in the realm of time.....

Again, it was not angelic.  "Angelic" and "glorified" are not interchangable terms.

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because God and heaven exist outside of the earthly time realm, so to speak....and He was slain from the foundation of the world. 

No, He wasn't, at least not in the sense that you are taking it.   What it means in Rev. 13:8 is that Jesus was slain according to the eternal purposes of God which existed before the foundation of the world.   He was not slain outside of time.   That is not supported by the Greek of Rev. 13:8.  The syntax of the Greek favors this reading: "Written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb slain."

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You seem to think that everyone who opens their mouth is making pronouncements and teaching, but we need to distinguish when people are just knocking on a door trying to learn and seeing if a particular door leads somewhere or not.

No, I am just correcting theologically erroneous claims.

[Heleadethme]

15 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Again, it was not angelic.  "Angelic" and "glorified" are not interchangable terms.

No, He wasn't, at least not in the sense that you are taking it.   What it means in Rev. 13:8 is that Jesus was slain according to the eternal purposes of God which existed before the foundation of the world.   He was not slain outside of time.   That is not supported by the Greek of Rev. 13:8.  The syntax of the Greek favors this reading: "Written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb slain."

No, I am just correcting theologically erroneous claims.

They are spiritual bodies brother, I guess that means in a glorified state.

I'm not saying He was slain outside of time......but in the heavenly realm He exists outside of time.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Heleadethme

[Sister]

11 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

His goings forth have been of old........He has made appearances on earth before His birth in physical body.  And the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, I'm not sure but I think we can understand that God exists outside of time and that is why the Lamb could make angelic appearances before He was slain in the time realm.  Melchidezek I believe is one such appearance and another that comes to mind is the angel of the Lord speaking to Moses from the burning bush.

Heleadethme

Jesus is "the Word of God" made flesh.  The same "Word of God" was "translated" into Melchizedek before his birth.  I wouldn't say Melchizadek appeared in a glorified body, because flesh is not a glorified body, but he was glorified as King of Righteousness, the true King of Salem, and Abraham met him first.  I think you are one of the few that can see this.  God bless.

The Word of God is the true King of Judah.  He was before David. 

 

Isaiah 9:6   For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

  Isaiah 9:7   Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

Revelation 22:16   I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 Psalms 110:1   The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

 Luke 20:44   David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

I was asked where I got all this information from, from what other book?, but my understanding comes from the scriptures only.  I am not bringing emotion into this, ....i am not insulting anyone's integrity, or acting proud, or condescending anyone personally, or have a bitterness for Israel, but I love the deep things of God, and am fascinated with how he has laid and planned everything out. I did not plan for this conversation to turn ugly, for my conversation is in Christ, it's genuine, and it's all centred around Christ and for his glory, and for those he has converted,...those who have circumsized their hearts.  I thought it would be encouraging, but it's turned out ugly.  No one has to believe me,...everyone must find their own truth, which can only come from the scriptures.  I am only interested in facts, and I can post many many scriptures, and it's people like you, so poised and in control of their tongue, so gentle, humble and showing the fruits of the spirit that I like to share this with and engage in a peaceful discussion that I find encouraging.  Thank you sister, you are a small delight in this hateful world.

 

 

The true King of Judah met Abraham before the tribes were even born,... Melchizadek.  Then out of Judah David was chosen to rule Israel and increase Christ's government on earth according to God's commandments.

David's son Solomon ruled after him, but defiled Judah.  All the other kings of Judah failed miserably and none were worthy to rule Judah, so the kingship taken off them.  There is no place on earth that can rule in righteousness, so to follow Judah's lead now, one must follow Christ who's laws come from above, which is heaven and not below.  Zion is a heavenly kingdom and we are it's citizens.  Judah is the ruling side of the heavenly kingdom, and Christ will set up his government again at his return, and chose only the faithful to rule with him.

David, although he sinned, repented and was found faithful until death, and Christ when he returns will take back the throne that truly belongs to him, for that throne is his, which was set up before the foundation of the world.  David was just keeping the seat warm for a while, until the first real King of Judah returns. Of David's seed, Christ had to be born in the flesh from this lineage.

The true King of Judah who never sinned is worthy to take back his throne.
 

[Guest shiloh357]

9 hours ago, Sister said:

HeleadethmeJesus is "the Word of God" made flesh.  The same "Word of God" was "translated" into Melchizedek before his birth. 

Again, that is not in the Bible.  Why do you keep making up stuff that the Bible doesn't say???

 

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I was asked where I got all this information from, from what other book?, but my understanding comes from the scriptures only. 

No, you are taking Scripture and imposing your own twisted ideas on to the Scriptures.

 

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  I thought it would be encouraging, but it's turned out ugly.

Well, your false teaching has to be confronted.  And yes, dealing with false teaching can be ugly.  That's because false teaching is ugly.

 

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The true King of Judah met Abraham before the tribes were even born,... Melchizadek. 

No, he was the king of Salem, not the King of Judah and there is no such thing as a "King of Judah."  

 

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The true King of Judah who never sinned is worthy to take back his throne.

Jesus is not the King of Judah.  He is the King of all 12 tribes.

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, Sister said:

Heleadethme

Jesus is "the Word of God" made flesh.  The same "Word of God" was "translated" into Melchizedek before his birth.  I wouldn't say Melchizadek appeared in a glorified body, because flesh is not a glorified body, but he was glorified as King of Righteousness, the true King of Salem, and Abraham met him first.  I think you are one of the few that can see this.  God bless.

The Word of God is the true King of Judah.  He was before David. 

 

Isaiah 9:6   For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

  Isaiah 9:7   Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

Revelation 22:16   I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 Psalms 110:1   The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

 Luke 20:44   David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

I was asked where I got all this information from, from what other book?, but my understanding comes from the scriptures only.  I am not bringing emotion into this, ....i am not insulting anyone's integrity, or acting proud, or condescending anyone personally, or have a bitterness for Israel, but I love the deep things of God, and am fascinated with how he has laid and planned everything out. I did not plan for this conversation to turn ugly, for my conversation is in Christ, it's genuine, and it's all centred around Christ and for his glory, and for those he has converted,...those who have circumsized their hearts.  I thought it would be encouraging, but it's turned out ugly.  No one has to believe me,...everyone must find their own truth, which can only come from the scriptures.  I am only interested in facts, and I can post many many scriptures, and it's people like you, so poised and in control of their tongue, so gentle, humble and showing the fruits of the spirit that I like to share this with and engage in a peaceful discussion that I find encouraging.  Thank you sister, you are a small delight in this hateful world.

 

 

The true King of Judah met Abraham before the tribes were even born,... Melchizadek.  Then out of Judah David was chosen to rule Israel and increase Christ's government on earth according to God's commandments.

David's son Solomon ruled after him, but defiled Judah.  All the other kings of Judah failed miserably and none were worthy to rule Judah, so the kingship taken off them.  There is no place on earth that can rule in righteousness, so to follow Judah's lead now, one must follow Christ who's laws come from above, which is heaven and not below.  Zion is a heavenly kingdom and we are it's citizens.  Judah is the ruling side of the heavenly kingdom, and Christ will set up his government again at his return, and chose only the faithful to rule with him.

David, although he sinned, repented and was found faithful until death, and Christ when he returns will take back the throne that truly belongs to him, for that throne is his, which was set up before the foundation of the world.  David was just keeping the seat warm for a while, until the first real King of Judah returns. Of David's seed, Christ had to be born in the flesh from this lineage.

The true King of Judah who never sinned is worthy to take back his throne.
 

Bless you Sister....   I like the word you use, "translated"....the Word of God translated into Melchizedek.....amen, I think that is a right way to say it.  Spiritual bodies (glorified) can be translated (appear) in physical form, i believe, they can walk and talk, be touched, can hold onto things, can eat and drink, but it is just that they are not bound and limited to the physical realm, so to speak, not bound to time and space, they can also appear/disappear and walk through walls, and cannot die, or perhaps cannot see corruption is more precise, I'm not sure if they can die or not.....Jesus was transfigured before He went to the cross, hmmm, will have to ponder on that some.  But that is how I believe the Lord gave me to understand it at least, if it is even possible to really completely understand these things, probably it is only in part.....so just by way perhaps of understanding in part how Melchizedek having no beginning or end of life.....but could still appear and live in physical body.  Just to clarify that is what I meant by angelic appearance......a heavenly being (in this case the Lord) but in a body....I didn't mean in a kind of ethereal translucent form, floating-on-air kind of apparition or anything like that.    Though I guess they could appear more ethereal like that too if it is the Lord's will....the transfiguration for example was more like that, and maybe that is also similar to the angel of the Lord in the burning bush.....which we know was the Lord Himself.

I am enjoying the glimpses I'm seeing about Judah through what you are bringing.......it is encouraging indeed and glorious!  Mining for treasure in His word.....His word is so perfect.....puzzles and pictures and trails that lead to everything coming together so perfectly.  Amen, we are citizens of heavenly Zion, and it takes nothing away from natural Israel, which is/was a picture of the heavenly.  And so this is how He is not just the offspring of David, but also the root...it's wonderful, and you are encouraging me to do some digging too......may the Lord bless you.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Heleadethme