Assurance of Heaven

[Behold]

On 6/7/2018 at 6:12 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, "Behold."

Don't be silly. If you don't want to read all that, fine! Just skip ahead! Read the portions that AREN'T a quote from someone or something else. That's all. No need to miss the rest just because you're feeling a little overwhelmed.

How can you know that ANYONE "goes to Heaven?" We will go THROUGH THE HEAVENS; that is, we will go THROUGH THE SKIES on our way to where the Messiah will be, and He's returning to rescue His people, Israel!

 

Shalom,

For me to know which parts to skip, as you suggested,  i'd have to read it all, or didnt you understand what you said?

Also, when a believer is talking about Heaven, they are talking about.... "God dwells in eternity".........they are talking about that one.  They are talking about...."absent from the body and present with the Lord".... They are talking about that place.

Edited June 16, 2018 by George
Removed Personal Attack from Post -- And for this reason Banned from thread

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Behold said:

Shalom,

For me to know which parts to skip, as you suggested,  i'd have to read it all, or didnt you understand what you said?

Also, when a believer is talking about Heaven, they are talking about.... "God dwells in eternity".........they are talking about that one.  They are talking about...."absent from the body and present with the Lord".... They are talking about that place.

And no worries, i never feel overwhelmed by someone who does not care if anyone is helped,  and is only looking for a fight.    That would be you. , Retrobyter

Shabbat shalom, Behold.

You've got me all wrong, bro'. I DO care if anyone is helped! But, there is just SO MUCH "baggage" from the centuries of the improper handling of Scripture and the influx of Greek thinking, that it is so HARD to cut through the "jungle" with the "machete" of God's Truth! That's why I quote so much! It's hard to get any momentum if you don't saturate the "playing field" with right-headed definitions! I've learned that you can even have a person agree with you about a certain definition, but in the very next sentence, they will TOTALLY forget that agreement and go back to the previous, wrong-headed definition for that word! Why? Because they LEARNED it wrongly (through no fault of their own) and now it's hard to think of that word without the previous definition popping in AUTOMATICALLY! It takes real WORK to undo the damage that has cropped up in modern Christianity!

Look, I try to keep my techniques simple and consistent: I use the Quote (") button for ...

Quote

quotations from books;

I use quotes in BLUE text for reference sources (like Strong's); I use quotes in GREEN text (Life) for Scripture narration, quotes in RED text (Blood) for the words of Yeshua`, and occasionally (for distinction), quotes in PURPLE text (Royalty) for the words of God the Father.

You can skip any of these, and just read what I wrote in between (although I wouldn't recommend it, especially the Scriptures). I try to keep my words in normal (Automatic) text. I will put emphasis (based on how we speak the words) by using CAPITAL LETTERS, often BOLD-FACED, and occasionally with UNDERLINING to draw attention to those words, but that stems from too many comic books in my past. If I could use "text balloons," I would!

I honestly do NOT want to be combative; I'm normally a very "laid-back" sort of guy who can get along with anyone. I try very hard to see matters from others' points-of-view, but there comes a time when one must stand for God's Truth.

Randy Alcorn wrote a wonderful book when he wrote his book entitled "Heaven." And, while I may not agree with some of the things he wrote about the "present Heaven," his REAL jewels are to be found in the Appendices, "Appendix A: Christoplatonism's False Assumptions" and "Appendix B: Literal and Figurative Interpretation!"

He said,

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Plato was “the first Western philosopher to claim that reality is fundamentally something ideal or abstract.”360 To think of the spiritual realm in physical terms or to envision God’s presence in the physical world was to do it a disservice. Plato considered the body a liability, not an asset. “For Plato . . . the body is a hindrance, as it opposes and even imprisons the soul (Phaedo 65–68; 91–94).”

Alcorn, Randy. Heaven (Alcorn, Randy) (p. 459). Tyndale House Publishers. Kindle Edition. 

 

Through Philo and Origen, such thinking was introduced to Christianity. To this, Mr. Alcorn coins a term:

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To distinguish the version of Platonism seen among Christians from secular forms of Platonism, I’ve coined the term Christoplatonism. This philosophy has blended elements of Platonism with Christianity, and in so doing has poisoned Christianity and blunted its distinct differences from Eastern religions. Because appeals to Christoplatonism appear to take the spiritual high ground, attempts to refute this false philosophy often appear to be materialistic, hedonistic, or worldly.

Alcorn, Randy. Heaven (Alcorn, Randy) (pp. 459-460). Tyndale House Publishers. Kindle Edition. 

 

But, hear his conclusion:

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The christoplatonic view of the eternal Heaven is an insult to Christ’s redemption and his resurrection. Christ did not die to give disembodied people a refuge in the spirit realm. He didn’t rise to offer us a mere symbol of new spiritual life. On the contrary, he died to restore to us the fullness of our humanity—spirit and body. He rose to lay claim to and exemplify our destiny, to walk and rule the physical Earth as physical beings, to his glory. He died to lift Earth’s curse and rose to guarantee that the earth itself would rise from misery and destruction to be a realm ruled by righteous humanity, to God’s eternal glory.

Alcorn, Randy. Heaven (Alcorn, Randy) (pp. 466-467). Tyndale House Publishers. Kindle Edition. 

 

In my opinion, he's absolutely right about the physical side!

The real crux of the matter is this: Why do we have to believe in "a continuity of life" between our present lives and the Resurrection? I argue that there is a DISCONTINUITY between our present lives and our lives at and after the Resurrection. We don't have to go to some "present Heaven" after we die to await the Resurrection. Instead, biblically speaking, we CEASE to exist at death and in the Resurrection, God RE-CREATES us whole again, only this time without mortality or corruptibility. This understanding COMPLETELY AGREES with Scripture! We ARE our bodies!

One more time for good measure. Read this verse without adding to God's Word:

Genesis 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

It doesn't say that "the LORD God formed the body of the man from the dust of the ground!" It says that He formed the "MAN of the dust of the ground!"

It doesn't say that "God PUT a spirit into the man"; it says that He "breathed into his [MAN'S] nostrils the breath of life."

It doesn't say that God PUT a soul into the man"; it says that the "MAN became a living nefesh!"

And, I simply gave the definition of "nefesh" and "naafash" as listed in Strong's Dictionary of the Hebrew Language:

5315 nefesh (neh'-fesh). From naafash; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental) -- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

5314 naafash (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air) -- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

A simple substitution into the above verse, and one can see the verse plainly:

Genesis 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living, air-breathing creature.

Without putting too blunt a point on it, when a person ceases to breathe air, he ceases being an air-breathing creature! And, since this IS the definition of "nefesh" which is interpreted as "soul," then this IS the definition of "soul!" Consequently, when a person ceases to breathe air, he ceases being a soul! Biblically speaking, there's NO SUCH THING as an "IMMORTAL SOUL!" (Until after the Resurrection, that is.) That error comes from the "Christoplatonic view," that Randy Alcorn mentions.

And, that's just ONE of several such definitions! Other definitions worth studying are those of "heaven," and "spirit," that are DIRECTLY related to this topic! In a nutshell, all "heaven" means is the "sky." All "spirit" means is the "wind" or the "breath," by analogy.