Corruption of the Bible

[Mishael]

2 hours ago, KiwiChristian said:

Yes, it DOES affect theology considering the books teach anti Christian beliefs.

There's no difference in theology in the Bible regardless of sects or denominations.

[ytLiJC]

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Why does it have to be either/or?   Why do you think that reading the Bible every day mean that someone can't bring the message of salvation to someone else.   It is usually those who read the Bible  regularly, that know what it says, who are the most competent to give the Gospel to someone else.

as it was explained to you before, there is speech, first of all, about listening in the Bible, while the systematic reading is even indicated as objectionable:

Ecclesiastes 12:12 (NASB) "be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.",

Ecclesiastes 12:12 (AKJB) "be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."

some people read books, while others listen to the One Who is really the true Lord God and understand the truth even if they haven't read Scripture - in fact, none of the Prophets/Saints, who wrote the biblical books, read from anywhere what they wrote in their prophetic books, but they listened to the true Lord God and heard the truth from Him, which they wrote in their respective writings - for example, where did Moses read the truth of God from when there had not been biblical scriptures before he began to write some (because Moses was the first one who wrote such scriptures - He is the author of the first biblical scriptures)?!

 

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, the arrogance is on you.  And the only reason you and I are having this exchange is because you picked the fight with your ungodly hatred  of the Bible and trying to tell people they should not read it.  That is really demonic and anti-Christian advice that I hope everyone else rejects, as you provide nothing here but ungodly counsel.   

And you are not being "persectuted."   You are being corrected.

 

have i ever said that i hate the Holy Scripture?!, and have i ever said that no one should ever read Scripture at all?!

demonic and antichristic is when religious worshipers read scripture systematically (thus) misinterpreting and twisting it and committing spiritual lawlessness on a world scale

if you don't know what i have experienced for decades, why do you claim that i am not persecuted?!

how can you know whether you betray me when you try to make me out to be a liar?!

 

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I don't oppose the Gospel. I oppose your false teachings.

 

either explain which of the teachings, i profess, are false and why/how or don't call me a lair

Blessings

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, ytLiJC said:

as it was explained to you before, there is speech, first of all, about listening in the Bible, while the systematic reading is even indicated as objectionable:

Ecclesiastes 12:12 (NASB) "be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.",

Ecclesiastes 12:12 (AKJB) "be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."

 

That is a misapplication of those Scriptures.   But since you hate reading the Bible and teach others not to do so.  Those verses are talking about books outside of scripture.

Quote

some people read books, while others listen to the One Who is really the true Lord God and understand the truth even if they haven't read Scripture - in fact, none of the Prophets/Saints, who wrote the biblical books, read from anywhere what they wrote in their prophetic books, but they listened to the true Lord God and heard the truth from Him, which they wrote in their respective writings - for example, where did Moses read the truth of God from when there had not been biblical scriptures before he began to write some (because Moses was the first one who wrote such scriptures - He is the author of the first biblical scriptures)?!

We listen to God through His Word.  The Bible is how God speaks to us.   God does not speak to us today except through His Word and it is the Holy Spirit who illuminates His word to us.  

 

Quote

have i ever said that i hate the Holy Scripture?!, and have i ever said that no one should ever read Scripture at all?!

No one who loves the Bible would tell peole that they should not read the Bible daily.  What you are promoting is from Satan, not from God.  All TRUE Christians are well-advised not to listen to you and to avoid your teachings and reject them out of hand.

 

Quote

demonic and antichristic is when religious worshipers read scripture systematically (thus) misinterpreting and twisting it and committing spiritual lawlessness on a world scale

That's an indictment of yourself and what YOU are promoting.

 

Quote

if you don't know what i have experienced for decades, why do you claim that i am not persecuted?!

how can you know whether you betray me when you try to make me out to be a liar?!

I am saying that no one here is persecuting you.  So you can drop the phony persecution card.

 

Quote

 

either explain which of the teachings, i profess, are false and why/how or don't call me a lair

Blessings

 

Telling people that they should not read the Bible on daily basis, when it is very thing we are to live by is false teaching.   No true Christian would teach that mess.  

[Jayne]

Wow, I'm just reading the end of this and it is painful to read.

Here's what Solomon REALLY said.

Ecclesiastes 12:1-13 - "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.  Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.  And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.  The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.  The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one Shepherd.  And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Meaning?

[1] We are all going to die, therefore everything earthly is meaningless.

[2] Nonetheless, Solomon continued to write down wisdom and knowledge in the form of proverbs and those words were given from "one Shepherd" = [the Lord.]

[3] The words sent to him from God were and are like "goads" [something to prod us along the way here and to move stubborn man]   A goad is a cattle prod.

[4] These words were and are like "nails fixed by masters" .  These nails aren't coming undone.

[5]  However, the countless books [not by the Shepherd] are "many" and to devote time and effort to these extra books can make you bone tired in the flesh.  Remember what he said, "Everything is vanity." 

[6] What's the only thing that really matters?  "Fear God and keep his commandments.

Here's my questions....

• How can you be goaded b the words of the "Shepherd" into growing as a Christian and how can you have your Christian faith firmly nailed if you don't read the Bible regularly?
• How can you fear God if you don't know him or his characteristics found in his Word?
• How can you keep God's commandment if you don't know them?  

Here's my final statement.....

I read God's Word regularly.  I try everyday, but I don't make it everyday.  Every. single. time. I read the Word of God I find things I didn't know were there, am "goaded" and my faith is more "firmly nailed", and I fear God more and I find nuances to his commandments that I didn't understand previous.  I find all of this in literal leaps and bounds.

We SHOULD be in God's Word every single day.  This passage by Solomon is reason enough, but the Bible contains this evidence over and over and over.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Jayne

[ytLiJC]

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

And apparently, you didn't see the dividing line that ended my reply to you, nor the words "Now to the topic at hand"?

No, I didn't alter it "subsequently"; now you decided to call me a liar and dishonest simply because YOU couldn't understand?

who could know what the purpose of that line was?! - you didn't explain

let's say the addressee thought that you just divided the biting remark to them and the "serious" explanation for canonization of scripture with that line - must they be accused of egocentrism?! - "Now to the topic at hand" could also turn out to be addressed to the same addressee

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

The Scribes and Pharisees you describe did not come about until after the return to Jerusalem, not to mention that oral traditions was not added to the Pentateuch in writing. And if you do not trust the Scripture as written, then what is YOUR  canon, and why should we trust that? Because "God told you"? If that is the case, then what says what you heard is correct if it cannot be compared to Scripture?

have i ever said that i don't accept biblical scriptures?!

the truth, to which i witnessed in this forum, was supported with quotes from the Bible, and there is no contradiction between that truth and holy scripture - nevertheless i don't try to impose it on any person - after all, the idea is that the ones who are faithful will believe in the truth even if only a few sentences of it are said to them

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

What I see is an angry, prideful man trying to declare himself as the only one who can declare canon. If those who collected the Scriptures cannot be trusted, then by all means you cannot be trusted at all.

if not all, at least most of the scribes, pharisees and, in general, jews in the time of Jesus could/did not believe what Jesus preached to them, but they considered him to be the only one who preached those teachings

i have never said that the ones who collected the biblical scriptures into one book made a mistake by doing that

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Les see: what you said here seems to be a pretty good indicator-

On 4/14/2018 at 7:21 PM, ytLiJC said:

 

if they interfere with the works of God and the Holy Spirit in this forum, then they are obliged to answer to both God and me - after all, the Holy Spirit works and God does His works through me - you know whoever disputes with a man of God, dispute with God Himself

Having to "answer to you" is declaring yourself an authority, (not to mention equating yourself to God) and since you are telling moderators what to do here, obviously, you expect them to obey you.

Now, want to try that again?

the matter at hand in those posts was a deletion of my posts, which is why i said that according to the Law of both the old and the New Testament the ones who delete my posts should explain to me why they do it, at least because my posts contain testimonies about spiritual things provided by the true Lord God and His Saints

i am not here to command people, but to witness to the truth of God

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

"All embracing"= universalism, which is NOT Scriptural. And weren't you the one who said:

18 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

you are the one who is not of the Holy Spirit if you oppose the truth of God

Blessings

So by your own post, you just accused yourself.

who can know what you mean by "universalism" - a human/world concept?!

the One Who is really the true God is the system Administrator and Provider of life for the whole infinite universe, and it is quite normal and right for Him to work for salvation and life's provision for all humans/souls, because He is God of all and has a duty to take care of all

or if you say it is not so, do you want you to be the first of those that God won't take care of?!

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

No, I do not, but at least I have a firm grasp on Scripture and know what I'm talking about. As for the things you "explained", I wouldn't have recognized them either, if they were as shoddy and unscriptural as the garbage you're trying to foist here.

And twisting Scripture to suit your preconceived notions doesn't count as "something important"; we already get enough of that here without you adding to it!

you haven't yet proven that i twist Scripture, but only say "you twist Scripture" - there have not yet been adequate explanations on your part

do you really think that i have not verified everything that i profess?!

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Then try having some first, because ALL of your replies have been snarky, high0-handed, conceited, malicious affairs with no inkling of concern for anything or anyone except yourself and what you think should be Scripture.

you are the one who are rash to blaspheme God and His word here - seemingly, there has been no one attempt on your part to earnestly verify what i witness to - you have only reprehended me quite flippantly

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Actually, Shiloh, Cobalt, myself, Davida and several others have soundly refuted you, but you are the one ignoring our words. "Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations" seems to be how you work on this board (not to mention outright lying as I demonstrated with your own posts earlier).

first of all, i listen to the One Who is really the true Lord God, because i know even from experience that humans may be (quite) misleading

you haven't proven yourselves as righteous enough believers or better than the ones you call bad - here is how some of you are still rushing to rag me

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

So all of that said, here's a little something for free-

You have one of two choices here, and you really need to decide which one you're going to take; because I suspect it's not going to be long before you wear out your welcome here and that decision gets made for you.

1) You scrap your ideas about you being the only one who decides what is biblical and what isn't, start over with reading Scripture, studying it and asking the Holy Spirit for input and guidance into the true Word of God. You also pay attention to Paul's teachings in the NT (also the Word of God), and stop trying to hoist yourself up as some sort of "man-God on earth answerable only to heaven". You get solid in the Scriptures and lose the universalism trash,  and forsake your arrogant, look-down-your-nose attitude at everyone else.

the One Who is really the true Lord God gives me the confidence to witness to His truth and i know what i speak when witnessing to a word of God, while many of your words here are ungrounded

 

4 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Or...

2) You continue the way you're going now, and ultimately end up not being welcome here, with most folks either placing you on "ignore", or just not even bothering to look at your posts. Either way, you eventually end up finding yourself on the "fast track" to either Moderator Review, or just plain being banned.

 And with your the way you've treated people here who tried to help you out, no one would miss you.

So, the ball is in your court. And frankly, your attitude is wearing thin on folks here, so you may just want to get alone with the Lord and ask Him about all this before you even try answering anyone else here any further.

YOUR MOVE.

-Sojo414.

i really don't know what you are talking about - you continue to make me out to be a man whose only intention here is to cause evil to people

i can't afford and don't dare to agree with beliefs such as: 2+2 makes 3 or another number different from 4, because i know God is watching us and recording our activity on something like a video recording and then He will judge us according to what our deeds have been, and He won't accept the systematic reading of scripture as an excuse - so if you still try to impose misbeliefs or heresies on others, now is the time for you to repent

you say both "we are christians" and "no one would miss you" knowing that it is written "God is love" and "love your neighbor even more than yourself" - so you don't advise me well

if you don't know what communication and interaction between the true Lord God and me is existing, don't try to tell us on our behalf what i must do and what i must not do with God - and i prefer doing what the true Lord God tells me to do to doing what humans tell me

and don't tell me that you are going to ban even Him for instructing me not to follow you

Blessings

[ytLiJC]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

That is a misapplication of those Scriptures.   But since you hate reading the Bible and teach others not to do so.  Those verses are talking about books outside of scripture.

We listen to God through His Word.  The Bible is how God speaks to us.   God does not speak to us today except through His Word and it is the Holy Spirit who illuminates His word to us.  

 

No one who loves the Bible would tell peole that they should not read the Bible daily.  What you are promoting is from Satan, not from God.  All TRUE Christians are well-advised not to listen to you and to avoid your teachings and reject them out of hand.

 

That's an indictment of yourself and what YOU are promoting.

 

I am saying that no one here is persecuting you.  So you can drop the phony persecution card.

 

Telling people that they should not read the Bible on daily basis, when it is very thing we are to live by is false teaching.   No true Christian would teach that mess.  

 

you misrepresent the words of both God, Solomon and me - so i can only advise you to prepare yourself for great judgment on the part of God if you continue to do it

Blessings

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, ytLiJC said:

 

you misrepresent the words of both God, Solomon and me - so i can only advise you to prepare yourself for great judgment on the part of God if you continue to do it

Blessings

I have not misrepresented anything.   I just reflect a level of honesty that you can't face up to.

[Jayne]

This got lost on the last page. 

Wow, I'm just reading the end of this and it is painful to read.

Here's what Solomon REALLY said.

Ecclesiastes 12:8-13 - "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.  Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.  And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.  The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.  The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one Shepherd.  And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Meaning?

[1] We are all going to die, therefore everything earthly is meaningless.

[2] Nonetheless, Solomon continued to write down wisdom and knowledge in the form of proverbs and those words were given from "one Shepherd" = [the Lord.]

[3] The words sent to him from God were and are like "goads" [something to prod us along the way here and to move stubborn man]   A goad is a cattle prod.

[4] These words were and are like "nails fixed by masters" .  These nails aren't coming undone.

[5]  However, the countless books [not by the Shepherd] are "many" and to devote time and effort to these extra books can make you bone tired in the flesh.  Remember what he said, "Everything is vanity." 

[6] What's the only thing that really matters?  "Fear God and keep his commandments.

Here's my questions....

• How can you be goaded b the words of the "Shepherd" into growing as a Christian and how can you have your Christian faith firmly nailed if you don't read the Bible regularly?
• How can you fear God if you don't know him or his characteristics found in his Word?
• How can you keep God's commandment if you don't know them?  

Here's my final statement.....

I read God's Word regularly.  I try everyday, but I don't make it everyday.  Every. single. time. I read the Word of God I find things I didn't know were there, am "goaded" and my faith is more "firmly nailed", and I fear God more and I find nuances to his commandments that I didn't understand previous.  I find all of this in literal leaps and bounds.

We SHOULD be in God's Word every single day.  This passage by Solomon is reason enough, but the Bible contains this evidence over and over and over.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Jayne

[Guest Butero]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:07 AM, OneGodBeliever said:

OK fair enough. I cannot say about other versions since verses are removed which u already agree to corruption in them. We can continue to my second claim books removed. Below 14 books are part of bible originally but were removed by the Vatican. My question is you claim KJV as word of God but it does not contain below books which are actually part of bible:

• 1 Esdras
• 2 Esdras
• Tobit
• Judith
• The rest of Esther
• The Wisdom of Solomon
• Ecclesiasticus
• Baruch with the epistle Jeremiah
• The Songs of the 3 Holy children
• The history of Susana
• bel and the dragon
• The prayer for Manasses
• 1 Maccabees
• 2 Maccabees

Those books are not part of the Bible.  They were rejected as scripture when the canon was created.  I have some of those books in my 1611 KJV Bible, but they are separated from the canon and placed in the middle as Apocrypha.  The Bible contains only 66 books, and then there are books that perhaps contain elements of truth, but they are not the inerrant Word of God.  

[ytLiJC]

40 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Wow, I'm just reading the end of this and it is painful to read.

Here's what Solomon REALLY said.

Ecclesiastes 12:1-13 - "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.  Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.  And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.  The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.  The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one Shepherd.  And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Meaning?

[1] We are all going to die, therefore everything earthly is meaningless.

[2] Nonetheless, Solomon continued to write down wisdom and knowledge in the form of proverbs and those words were given from "one Shepherd" = [the Lord.]

[3] The words sent to him from God were and are like "goads" [something to prod us along the way here and to move stubborn man]   A goad is a cattle prod.

[4] These words were and are like "nails fixed by masters" .  These nails aren't coming undone.

[5]  However, the countless books [not by the Shepherd] are "many" and to devote time and effort to these extra books can make you bone tired in the flesh.  Remember what he said, "Everything is vanity." 

[6] What's the only thing that really matters?  "Fear God and keep his commandments.

Here's my questions....

• How can you be goaded b the words of the "Shepherd" into growing as a Christian and how can you have your Christian faith firmly nailed if you don't read the Bible regularly?
• How can you fear God if you don't know him or his characteristics found in his Word?
• How can you keep God's commandment if you don't know them?  

Here's my final statement.....

I read God's Word regularly.  I try everyday, but I don't make it everyday.  Every. single. time. I read the Word of God I find things I didn't know were there, am "goaded" and my faith is more "firmly nailed", and I fear God more and I find nuances to his commandments that I didn't understand previous.  I find all of this in literal leaps and bounds.

We SHOULD be in God's Word every single day.  This passage by Solomon is reason enough, but the Bible contains this evidence over and over and over.

 

you know "in the beginning was the Word, and then the Word turned out to be in God, and then God turned out to be the Word"(John 1:1)

so in the beginning God found the truth and became its main servant, representative and embodiment - did He read scripture?!, no, but He has been the primary source of all holy scriptures/writings, because the truth would not live if there was no God to serve it faithfully

did Moses read scripture?!, no, because there had been no biblical scriptures yet before he began to write Torah - in fact, Moses was the first of those among humans who wrote the biblical scriptures

have i ever read the entire Bible from the first to the last page?!, no, the only part of the Bible that i have ever read all the way through was the New Testament, and i read it only twice, but this hasn't prevented me from practicing the faith in the true Lord God right(eously) enough and thus receiving revelations from Him - now i know what is written in Scriptures without even reading them

so we humans could read the Holy Scripture(Bible) once, twice or thrice, but why must we necessarily re-read it hundreds or thousands of times when all is in the right(eous) practice of faith, which doesn't necessarily involve systematic reading of scripture?! - in fact, in the Bible there is no speech about systematic reading of scripture mandatory for every religious worshiper, but rather there is speech about believing, listening and reasoning - reading has a limited benefit and is for a while - let us not forget that the world system has been the one that has taught humans to read as many books as possible...

that is why there is no bible pictured on my profile picture, but the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are depicted on it

Blessings