I've changed my mind. I now believe the "earth" is 6k years old

[Tristen]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Can't stop till you get the last dig?  How CARNAL of you.  Way to make Christians look 'set apart' from those of the world.  

 

When someone refuses to rationally engage with my arguments, I get to stop taking them seriously.

Unlike my accusers (siding with the accuser of our brethren), I think my actual Judge understands a benign attempt at humor.

 

[Tristen]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You called biblehub a "pseudo source".  Where is the credibility in that?

Where is the "credibility" in continuously lying about my intention after I have repeatedly clarified what I meant?

Even if I meant what you are trying to convey, we are actually allowed to be critical of any extra-Biblical source. So, another shot to your "credibility" if you think "biblehub" is beyond reproach - but mainly just from you lying.

 

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And you know how I feel about the angels, right?

No, not sure.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  
"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." Matthew 22:30 KJV

Right.  When believers die physically, their souls/spirits go to heaven.  And they don't marry are are given in marriage.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The living RETURN to God.  Can't do it in 'flesh and blood' body (who would want to anyhow) as it is of the earth.

No, those who physically die 'return to God'.  And they don't do it in "flesh and blood", but it is their immaterial soul/spirit that returns to God, awaiting their resurrection (spiritual) body at the Second Advent.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  No wonder we have been given 2 of them.  One for the 'seen' world and one for the 'unseen' one.  Get buried or angels come and fly you away...

Believers get buried (physical body) AND will "fly away" with angels.  From Luke 16, it is clear that Laz was escorted by angels.  No reason that no one else will be escorted to heaven.  And besides, we don't have maps to guide us there.  :)

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

When do we start to feed upon the body and blood of Christ?  Upon the words of God What is the living bread?

First sentence:  reference to communion per John 6.

Second sentence:  reference to spiritual growth through the Written Word.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  Made a NEW CREATURE.   Now either that new creature goes into the corruption of the earth when this body dies the death of Adam or it doesn't.

One must understand what "new creature" per 2 Cor 5:17 means.  It is a reference to the fact that all believers have a new nature, one that cannot sin.  And all believers still have their natural human natures that still sin.  So the conflict, as Paul wrote about in Romans 6 and 7.  Which demonstrates free will to choose.

The new creature will go to be with God at physical death.  

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  Either we NEVER DIE or we do.  It's a matter of what we believe...

Both.  The physical corruptible body will die (or be changed at the coming of the Lord) and the immaterial soul/spirit will never die.  Applies to both believers and non believers.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

...neither doth corruption inherit incorruption...

It means the corruptible body doesn't inherit incorruption.  Rather, it will be changed into a body of incorruption at the resurrection.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Acts 13:35 KJV   Now I don't know about you but for me, anything that stays in the dust of the earth becomes corrupted...

In Jewish times, they believed that physical bodies began to corrupt in 4 days, so by the time Jesus went to Lazarus' home, they believed that his physical body had already begun to decay (by this time he stinketh).  Jesus' body wasn't in the grave for 4 days and therefore, His body didn't see corruption.

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, Tristen said:

DeighAnn said: 

Can't stop till you get the last dig?  How CARNAL of you.  Way to make Christians look 'set apart' from those of the world. 

When someone refuses to rationally engage with my arguments, I get to stop taking them seriously.

So, calling biblehub a "pseudo source" is rational???

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, Tristen said:

Even if I meant what you are trying to convey, we are actually allowed to be critical of any extra-Biblical source. So, another shot to your "credibility" if you think "biblehub" is beyond reproach - but mainly just from you lying.

Well, there it is.  Biblehub PRESENTS actual Bible.  Not just commentaries about the Bible.  And they provide the many translations that are available, as well as the original languages, and dictionary meanings of those original language words.

Do you consider English translations as "extra-biblical" then?  Seems so.  And if so, I strongly disagree.  That would mean NO ONE without extensive original language training would have any chance of understanding what God has written.

Please show me any lie I have made.

Edited June 7, 2023 by FreeGrace

[DeighAnn]

36 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No, those who physically die 'return to God'.  And they don't do it in "flesh and blood", but it is their immaterial soul/spirit that returns to God, awaiting their resurrection (spiritual) body at the Second Advent.

Are you saying that 'spiritual bodies' are immaterial

or

that both bodies 'earthly and spiritual' go into the grave and the 'air/breath' of that/those body/bodies' goes to God?  



 

[FreeGrace]

4 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

No, those who physically die 'return to God'.  And they don't do it in "flesh and blood", but it is their immaterial soul/spirit that returns to God, awaiting their resurrection (spiritual) body at the Second Advent.
Are you saying that 'spiritual bodies' are immaterial

or

that both bodies 'earthly and spiritual' go into the grave and the 'air/breath' of that/those body/bodies' goes to God?  

I am saying that the physical body goes to the grave and the soul/spirit goes to God for the saved or to Hades, awaiting the GWT judgment.

There is no "spiritual body that goes into the grave.  The grave is for the dead physical body only.  The immaterial (soul/spirit) is what goes to God or Hades.

The resurrection body is called "spiritual" in 1 Cor 15.  But no one gets one until the belever's resurrection, at the end of the Tribulation.

It is the resurrection body that is both physical and spiritual.  Jesus entered a locked room and there is no mention in context that He simply climbed in through a window.  Physical bodies cannot pass through walls/doors/etc.  But physical/spiritual bodies (resurrection bodies) can.

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, FreeGrace said:

The resurrection body is called "spiritual" in 1 Cor 15.  But no one gets one until the belever's resurrection, at the end of the Tribulation.

HOW can the 'soul/spirit' go to God without a body when 'A LIVING soul' is 


27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And we know that IMAGE is a body because WITHOUT a body THERE IS NO SOUL.  

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The BODY and BREATH is what a living SOUL is.  

IF man is "IMAGE" and

soul is "BODY",

then BY DEFINITION a 'soul' going to heaven has GOT to be in a body.  

Without an image there is no man, without a body there is no soul.  

 

[FreeGrace]

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

HOW can the 'soul/spirit' go to God without a body when 'A LIVING soul' is

No, a "living soul" isn't a "body".  A living soul is put into a body.  Gen 2:7.

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And we know that IMAGE is a body because WITHOUT a body THERE IS NO SOUL.

Does God the Father or God the Spirit have bodies?  No.  Only God the Son has a body.

In Gen 1:27 the "image" of God refers to the fact that just as there are 3 Persons of the Godhead or Trinity, man has 3 parts; body, soul and spirit.  1 Thess 5:23.  However, when Adam sinned, what died "on that day" wasn't his body, but His spirit, making him spiritually dead.  Faith in Christ results in regeneration or the making alive of the human spirit, with which to properly worship God.  John 4:24

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

  7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The body came first.  When God "breathed' into the body, it became a "living soul".  When the soul departs the body, James 2:26 says the body is dead.  No more soul.

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The BODY and BREATH is what a living SOUL is.

No, that is what man is.  Having a body and a soul.  The body houses the soul.  When the soul leaves the body, "nobody home".

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

  IF man is "IMAGE" and
soul is "BODY",
then BY DEFINITION a 'soul' going to heaven has GOT to be in a body.

Problem with that is that a soul is NOT a body.  A soul is IN a body.  And when the soul leaves a body, the body is dead, and stays in the ground.  Soul goes to heaven.

What we don't know is how the soul appears in heaven BEFORE the resurrection.  The Bible describes souls as we describe living persons.  But the Bible acknowledges that the dead body is on earth, and not in heaven.  So we aren't told anything about that "temporary state" between death and resurrection of the soul.

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

  Without an image there is no man, without a body there is no soul.  

We can't see the soul and spirit in living believers, but the Bible acknowledges that they are there.  1 Thess 5:23

And every cemetery is full of bodies that have no souls.

A body and a soul are separate entities.  When combined (Gen 2:7) there is a living person.  When the soul leaves the body, the body is dead but the soul has departed for either heaven or Hades.  And all souls will be reunited with their bodies at some point;  the Bible calls it resurrection;  one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

[DeighAnn]

6 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No, a "living soul" isn't a "body".  A living soul is put into a body.  Gen 2:7.

And formed YHVH God man the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and BECAME the MAN a being living

There is the dust - not a soul
There is the breath of life - not a soul

THE COMBINATION OF THE BODY AND THE BREATH is what makes man a LIVING BEING





Then the LORD    יְהוָ֨ה
(Yah·weh)    3068: the proper name of the God of Israel    from havah
God    אֱלֹהִ֜ים
(e·lo·him)    430: God, god    pl. of eloah
formed    וַיִּיצֶר֩
(vai·yi·tzer)    3335: to form, fashion    a prim. root
man    הָֽאָדָ֗ם
(ha·'a·dam)    120: man, mankind    from an unused word
of dust    עָפָר֙
(a·far)    6083: dry earth, dust    from an unused word
from the ground,    הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה
(ha·'a·da·mah,)    127: ground, land    from the same as adam
and breathed    וַיִּפַּ֥ח
(vai·yip·pach)    5301: to breathe, blow    a prim. root
into his nostrils    בְּאַפָּ֖יו
(be·'ap·pav)    639: a nostril, nose, face, anger    from anaph
the breath    נִשְׁמַ֣ת
(nish·mat)    5397: breath    from nasham
of life;     
     2425b: life    from chayah
and man    הָֽאָדָ֖ם
(ha·'a·dam)    120: man, mankind    from an unused word
became    וַֽיְהִ֥י
(vay·hi)    1961: to fall out, come to pass, become, be    a prim. root
a living    חַיִּ֑ים
(chai·yim;)    2416a: alive, living    from chayah
being.    לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ
(le·ne·fesh)    5315: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

comes to pass, becomes, be....body and breath EQUAL SOUL. 

So every time a 'soul' goes to heaven that soul is 'body and breath', definitely not 'earth' body (as in Adam that body dies) but in a spiritual body.   


So, as in Adam the earth body has died, AND THE QUESTION about WHAT comes next is answered here...how is the 'spirit/soul' raised up?

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

This body dies which releases/quickens 'a bare seed' and God gives every seed a body. 

Nothing about NO BODY, just a CHANGE of bodies.  Nothing about WAITING till a last day (old covenant whos graves already opened) just 'never dying'.   Nothing about RETURNING to have ANOTHER PART of us raised up, just raised up.  

Sure, some are going to be spiritual bodies going to the place of death (rich man) just like there will be spiritual bodies following Christ to go be where He is, the angels will 'fly them away', and they are RECONIZABLE, in their own image, and souls and THOSE THINGS require a body.  Eyes, cry, finger...all BODY things

Notice how you have gone from GODS WORDS to your own?  Just like those who say the earth is young, just like those who speak of pre trib rapture...

If indeed what you are saying IS OF GOD, then SHOW 
 
1. Being RAISED UP without a body as the first of two resurrections
2. RETURNING WITHOUT A BODY
3. The next 'raising up', this time with the BODY FROM THE GRAVE/CORRUPTION
4. a joining of an 'immaterial soul' with a body from the earth
5. a waiting till the 'last day' for resurrection