Born again, a “real” birth.

[Not me]

As with all things that you learn or read, take to the Lord for a confirmation. 

The expression “born again” in scripture is not a figure of speech. It is a real birth that happens at the time of an individuals  conversion, or when they get saved. This, that comes to life this new “thing” in scripture is called the New Creation”.

This is the only thing in the believers life that is “born of God”. This is that life that does not sin. 

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

It is learning to allow or “put on” this new creation is what growing  in Christ is about. All besides this “putting on of Christ by faith” is a striving after a righteousness of ones own. Will always and forever end in failure, For self cannot deny self. There has to be a yeilding to another. This in scripture is what it means to “walk by faith”. It is the manifestation of the new creation in the life of the believer that sets a person free from there fallen nature or “old man”. 

This is the one and only way to walk a walk that is pleasing to God. A victorious Christian life is not a dream that is a fancy. It is for all believers that are willing to pay the price. And what is that price? Laying down one's life, all of it. But what does this mean in actuality ?  “Laying down one’s life”. This is where most Christians say they are willing, but they don’t see the totality of this “laying down.” They see there “bad” they want to lose. But their “good” has to be given up also. It is when a believer is willing to give up all their life and enter into death rather than sin, that they come to see even that which they called their “good,” was tainted with self, making it sin. The salvation we have in Christ is a great and glorious thing. That we His body would come to know what our salvation in Christ consists of, from the eternal ground.    As with all scriptural truths they must be seen inwardly. Take these words or ideas before the Lord yourself, and ask Him about them. That is the only way you will know for sure.

much love in Christ, Not me

[Not me]

9 hours ago, Yowm said:

Rather...We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. (Rom 6:6-7)

And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. (Gal 5:24)
 

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
(Rom 8:3)
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
(Col 2:11-12)
 

When will we get off this surrender mantra and start acknowledging the work Christ has done to set us free, that we may give thanks and praise and glory to Him. He is Worthy, not our tips and techniques that only focuses us back on ourselves, and not Him.

Rather than just telling me I’m wrong. If you would be so kind as to show me where what I wrote was unscriptural, I would appreciate it very much. 

much love in Christ, Not me 

[Not me]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

As I quoted you saying..."

. It is the manifestation of the new creation in the life of the believer that sets a person free from there fallen nature or “old man”. "

 

It is not the manifestation of the new creation in our life that sets us free from the fallen nature or 'old man' rather we have been set free through Christ's death and resurrection.

 

Romans 6:3-4,6-9 NKJV
[3] Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [4] Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [6] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [7] For he who has died has been freed from sin. [8] Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [9] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

 

 

Is not the “new creation,”  that life in the believer that Christ bought with his death? Is not the manifestation of that life called in scripture “Christ being formed” in the believer. Is not the word “formed” the same as “being manifested” or “being brought forth”

But not wanting to “argue over words”

I will give you leave. And wish for you a increase in Christ in your innermost being. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

[Not me]

Double post

Not me

Edited May 4, 2018 by Not me

[Not me]

13 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Jesus is never referred to as the 'new creation'. He is the Creator and forms a new creation in us. It's Jesus who sets us free and the new creation is a manifestation of that freedom.

It's not a matter of 'words' but of truth.

Where did I say Jesus was the New Creation?  Please show me where I said that. Thanks

Much love in Christ, Not me

Edited May 4, 2018 by Not me

[Not me]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

OK, sorry for the confusion, since you didn't mean Jesus as the new creation, you said..."It is the manifestation of the new creation in the life of the believer that sets a person free from there fallen nature or “old man”. 

Which I objected to and still do by replying...

It is not the manifestation of the new creation in our life that sets us free from the fallen nature or 'old man' rather we have been set free through Christ's death and resurrection.

Romans 6:3-4,6-9 NKJV
[3] Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [4] Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [6] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [7] For he who has died has been freed from sin. [8] Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [9] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

The manifestation does not set us free. Christ does. 

Apology accepted. 

 Is it not Christ being formed in the believer that sets a person free from their old man. Would you not consider Christ being manifested in the life of the believer the same thing? And since the New Creation or New Birth is that life that Christ gives to the believer. Is it not that life that overcomes the fallen nature? 

So to say the bringing forth or manifestion of that life “does not” over come the old nature is a miscarriage of words. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

[Not me]

32 minutes ago, Yowm said:

But you originally said...

" It is the manifestation of the new creation in the life of the believer that sets a person free "

That is different than saying 'Christ being formed in the believer'. The difference is between cause and effect. Christ is not the same as the manifestation. The manifestation may be 'Christlike' but it is not Christ.

The root of what sets us free is not the manifestation of His Work in us but His actual Work of Redemption at Calvary. What issues from there is His graciousness to sinners and the work of His Spirit within.

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin.
(Rom 6:6-7)

It's a past fact rooted at Calvary.

Christ is the same as the manifestation of Himself, for what else is being manifested but Christ himself. For the scripture says “Christ in us the hope of glory” not a resemblance of Him, but He Himself.  It is the manifestation of the life of Christ in the life of the believer that’s set a person free. That life is called the New Creation, so if that life,  the New Creation, is being manifested in the life of the believer that life sets the believer free. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

Edited May 4, 2018 by Not me

[Not me]

7 minutes ago, Yowm said:

If this is 'your' manifestation/Christ have at it, just leave me out LOL...

man·i·fes·ta·tion

ˌmanəfəˈstāSH(ə)n,ˌmanəˌfesˈtāSH(ə)n/

noun

 

1. an event, action, or object that clearly shows or embodies something, especially a theory or an abstract idea.

   "the first obvious manifestations of global warming"

   • the action or fact of showing an abstract idea.

     "the manifestation of anxiety over the upcoming exams"

     synonyms:

     display, demonstration, show, exhibition, presentation "the manifestation of anxiety"

   • a symptom or sign of an ailment.

     "a characteristic manifestation of Lyme disease"

     synonyms:

     sign, indication, evidence, token, symptom, testimony, proof, substantiation, mark, reflection, example, instance "manifestations of global warming"

Or you could go with;

late Middle English: from late Latin manifestatio(n-), from the verb manifestare‘  

“make public.” 

Much love in Christ, Not me

[Gideon]

6 hours ago, Yowm said:

As I quoted you saying..."

. It is the manifestation of the new creation in the life of the believer that sets a person free from there fallen nature or “old man”. "

 

It is not the manifestation of the new creation in our life that sets us free from the fallen nature or 'old man' rather we have been set free through Christ's death and resurrection.

 

Romans 6:3-4,6-9 NKJV
[3] Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [4] Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [6] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [7] For he who has died has been freed from sin. [8] Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [9] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

 

 

Can we talk about this practically? If we are no longer slaves to sin, and Jesus said “He that commits sin is a slave to it” then it appears that the practical result in our lives will be that we cease from sin, and no longer commit it, amen?  Let me get that answer before I continue. I want to make sure I am following you here. Thanks, Yowm.

Gideon

[Gideon]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Being no longer a slave to sin, does not mean that we will not occasionally stumble or even get tangled in it.

Therefore, surrounded as we are by such a vast cloud of witnesses, let us fling aside every encumbrance and the sin that so readily entangles our feet. And let us run with patient endurance the race that lies before us, (Heb 12:1)
 

And if that were the actual effect for most Christians, I could accept that. But for more than a few, the net over them is so entangled that they truly do not believe there even is a place of abiding in Christ, where we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. 

For most today, they are trying to die to self by their efforts, which is a losing battle simply because it is impossible. They do not have shields of faith up that God can and will bring them to a place of real victory of those sins. They do not believe holiness in this life is even possible, because they see it as an attainment they are asked to achieve, rather than a shield of faith whereby we believe Christ has already achieved it for us. 

James said that when we pray, and make requests of God, let us not doubt in our hearts because if we do, let us understand we will get nothing from God. A double minded man is unstable in all of his ways. So when we are taught to pray “Deliver us from evil”, it is imperative that we believe that not only can He do it, He will do it!

The risk for children of God is that if they are continually failing, they then fall back on believing holiness is actually an impossibility. They lean harder and harder on their positional  standing, never seeing that it is that positional standing which is meant to enliven our faith to believe it through until it is fully manifested in our lives. 

Is there a danger to get to the point where we are not concerned about God’s real victory ever really manifesting itself IN US?  Absolutely! Continued sin causes our repentance to  become less and less genuine, and even our core faith is attacked, as layers and layers of hardness begin to change our once thriving faith into lukewarm head knowledge. 

Until we draw a line in the sand that God can and will keep us from falling, and that sin has no authority over us as we have been delivered from its power,  any hope of further growth in sanctification is cut asunder. So IF we slip into sin, it is imperative we get back up, repent , and hold back of our shield of faith that we are new creatures and confess again that sin has no hold on us, for we are not in the flesh, and owe the flesh nothing.  

Blessings, 

Gideon