Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Brother Duke said: How many Raptures are there then? Are the Tribulation believers not raptured? What process do they go through? The Bible states that the dead in Christ are caught up before the living. Does that mean it goes like this? 1) Dead in Christ Believers before the Tribulation 2) Living in Christ Believers before the Tribulation 3) Dead in Christ Believers after the Tribulation 4) Living in Christ Believers after the Tribulation I count multiple raptures if this happens. Also how many people are raptured in this first rapture? We know that the 144,000 go through the tribulation and there is also a multitude of believers that die in the Tribulation that are so many they cannot even be counted but what does that leave for the first rapture? That is ridiculous. The Church goes up in the rapture. There will be people who are saved during the Tribulation. The ones who are not martyred and go to heaven, will survive into the millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Brother Duke said: I can see that the Church most probably starts at Pentecost even though Stephen in Acts referred to Israel at Mount Sinai as the church also but I do not know of any scriptures showing the tribulations starts after a Rapture of Chrisitans but leaving behind Christians to be raptured again later. It is these very tribulation Saints that makes a pre-tribulation rapture hard for me to believe in. Steven was not speaking doctrinally when he referred to Israel as the "church" in the wilderness. He was not saying that they were "The Church." The word is used to refer to a congregation of people but not an ecclesiastical body. It appears that you are trying to refute me over things I didn't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: That is ridiculous. The Church goes up in the rapture. There will be people who are saved during the Tribulation. The ones who are not martyred and go to heaven, will survive into the millennium. That is the problem. Are the tribulation saints raptured or are they not? Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Steven was not speaking doctrinally when he referred to Israel as the "church" in the wilderness. He was not saying that they were "The Church." The word is used to refer to a congregation of people but not an ecclesiastical body. It appears that you are trying to refute me over things I didn't say. The definition of Church Stephen used is the same definition used later throughout the New Testament. I was not trying to refute you. I am only showing the definition of Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Brother Duke said: The definition of Church Stephen used is the same definition used later throughout the New Testament. I was not trying to refute you. I am only showing the definition of Church. The Church is not Israel is not the Church. It's not the definition it is the usage. Words in Hebrew and Greek have a lot of nuance because they are both smaller languages and words have different usages based on context and other things. So word usage trumps word meaning. Stephen's usage of the word "church was not ecclesiastical. He wasn't speaking doctrinally about the Church. Quote That is the problem. Are the tribulation saints raptured or are they not? I just told you that they are not. Some will be martyred and go to heaven. Others will survive and simply stay on earth and enter the millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeChan82 Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Share Posted June 5, 2018 On 6/3/2018 at 5:37 PM, Last Daze said: So, if the new covenant is still in effect after the pretrib rapture then is the Holy Spirit still "here" after the rapture? In addition to that question I would ask, if the church is gone, is the Holy Spirit still here? If not, how do all those people get saved during the tribulation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: The Church is not Israel is not the Church. It's not the definition it is the usage. Words in Hebrew and Greek have a lot of nuance because they are both smaller languages and words have different usages based on context and other things. So word usage trumps word meaning. Stephen's usage of the word "church was not ecclesiastical. He wasn't speaking doctrinally about the Church. I just told you that they are not. Some will be martyred and go to heaven. Others will survive and simply stay on earth and enter the millennium. Is 1 corintians 15 not the rapture? 51 says that All shall be changed. It does not leave anyone out. 1 corintiahns 15:51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Brother Duke said: Is 1 corintians 15 not the rapture? 51 says that All shall be changed. It does not leave anyone out. 1 corintiahns 15:51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. No, gets left out. No Christians will get left behind at the rapture. But there will be those who don't get saved until they are in the Tribulation and that doesn't apply to I Cor. 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No, gets left out. No Christians will get left behind at the rapture. But there will be those who don't get saved until they are in the Tribulation and that doesn't apply to I Cor. 15. I am not sure I understand. Is 1 Cor 15 part of the rapture or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Davida said: the Holy Spirit will stop holding back the evil from manifesting Is there a scripture that supports that? I can list where he convicts of sin, reveals truth, comforts, helps, but where does it say that he holds back evil from manifesting? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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