You should strive to speak in tongues.

[johnthebaptist]

On 6/9/2018 at 12:11 AM, MadHermit said:

A 7-POINT CHARISMATIC MANIFESTO  

(1) Paul repeatedly commands us to (1) follow his example (1 Cor 4:16: 11:1; Phil 3:17) and his example includes a life that demonstrates the power of the Spirit (1 Cor 4:16, 19-20) and not just applying correct doctrinal principles.

(2) Following Paul's example includes fulfilling his spiritual priorities.  In 1 Corinthians Paul wants us all to speak in tongues (14:5) and thanks God that he speaks in tongues (privately) more than everyone (14:18).  Paul's wish and example are in effect a command for 2 reasons:

(3) Paul commands us all to "pray in the Spirit" (Eph 6:18), I. e. to pray with the prompting of the Holy Spirit, and the only example he gives of praying in the Spirit is speaking in tongues (1b Cor 14:15).

(4) 1 Cor 12:29-30 has been misinterpreted to imply that God does not intend everyone to receive the gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues.  But Paul is merely observing that not every believer actually exercises these spiritual gifts.  We know this be   (a) because Paul wants us all to speak in tongues and then assures us "you can all prophesy one by one."  He thereby implies that at least these 2 charisms are for every believer.                                                                                                                                             (b) because Paul twice Paul commands us to "strive for" spiritual gifts" (1 Cor 12:31: 14:1) and both times he then discusses the gifts of tongues and prophecy.  So at least he has both gifts in mind as required objects of spiritual striving. 

(5) Modern evangelicals pervert Paul's teaching by twisting his insistence that tongues be interpreted in a public meeting attended bu outsiders into an anti-tongues polemic. In fact, Paul teaches that private tongues "builds up" the believer (1 Cor 14:4), that praying tongues enhances praise and worship and should be privately practiced (14:28).  The importance of prayer in tongues for Paul is reinforced by his gratitude that he speaks in tongues more than everyone.

(6) No academic commentary offers a biblical justification (eg. 1 Cor 13:8, 1o) for the cessationist view. The cessationist view is anti-Scriptural and grieves the Holy Spirit by disparaging the spiritual gifts that the Holy Spirit has to offer.

(7) Acts 2 is not normative for glossolalia and tongues Greek: glossai) need not be human languages. The tongues in Acts 2 doubles as prophecy (2:18 citing Joel 2:27-28) because the witnesses understand it, but the tongues in 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 is neither understood nor interpreted and is distinguished from prophesy (19:6).  Indeed, Paul construes the apparent gibberish as "the tongues of angels" (1 Cor 13:1).  Greek descriptions of speaking in tongues at Delphic construe it as gibberish that needs to be interpreted by a prophet of Apollo.  So the word "glossai" need not mean "human languages." 

 

 

I haven't figured out what purpose is served in speaking in tongues unless someone understands what I am saying.

[Daniel Marsh]

26 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

I haven't figured out what purpose is served in speaking in tongues unless someone understands what I am saying.

Hi John, most of what you posted is wishful thinking.   Acts 2 gives the best definition,  and that is the view presented in Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles.   supplication requires thinking.   You are reading tongues as you understand it into Eph 6 --- it is not there.

 

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk022syG5l0k_s_anYgaTg10rppF58w%3A1583540344322&ei=eOhiXuehE8iytgX-6o2ADQ&q="+in+the+Spirit"+site%3Anewadvent.org&oq="+in+the+Spirit"+site%3Anewadvent.org&gs_l=psy-ab.3...14892.14892..15665...0.0..0.115.335.0j3......0....1..gws-wiz.1NgO2dwcDJI&ved=0ahUKEwjnvde9i4foAhVIma0KHX51A9AQ4dUDCAs&uact=5

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-18.htm

Every occurance of "in the spirit" does not mean tongues.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch="in+the+Spirit"&qs_version=EXB

 

Ephesians 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:

22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.

23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Daniel Marsh

[johnthebaptist]

Just now, Daniel Marsh said:

Hi John, most of what you posted is wishful thinking.   Acts 2 gives the best definition,  and that is the view presented in Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles.   supplication requires thinking.   You are reading tongues as you understand it into Eph 6 --- it is not there.

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-18.htm

Every occurance of "in the spirit" does not mean tongues.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch="in+the+Spirit"&qs_version=EXB

 

Ephesians 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:

22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.

23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

 

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Cor 14:27-28

[BlessedCreator]

The gift of tongues is not being given out in these end times and I dont believe they have been since the early church. 

[Willa]

On 3/6/2020 at 3:54 PM, johnthebaptist said:

I haven't figured out what purpose is served in speaking in tongues unless someone understands what I am saying.

Jud 1:20  But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit  Jud 1:21  keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1Co 14:4  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Rom 8:15  For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."  Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Rom 8:27  Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

7 hours ago, BlessedCreator said:

The gift of tongues is not being given out in these end times and I don't believe they have been since the early church. 

What is your proof?   Also, when did "end times" begin?

45 minutes ago, Willa said:

Jud 1:20  But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit  Jud 1:21  keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1Co 14:4  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Rom 8:15  For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."  Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Rom 8:27  Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

"which cannot be uttered."  indicates, that a human can not even speak those sounds. 

 

Jude

 

20-23 But you, dear friends of mine, build yourselves up on the foundation of your most holy faith and by praying through the Holy Spirit keep yourselves within the love of God. Wait patiently for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ which will bring you to the life eternal. For some of these men you can feel pity and you can treat them differently. Others you must try to save by fear, snatching them as it were out of the fire while hating the very garments their deeds have befouled.

Ascription
24-25 Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glory without fault and with unspeakable joy, to the only God, our saviour, be glory and majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before time was, now, and in all ages to come, amen.

 

Nothing about speaking in tongues in that text.

One does not have to speak in tongues to pray in the Spirit.

Romans 8 Evangelical Heritage Version (EHV)
God Placed Our Judgment on Christ
8 So then, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2 For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me  free from the law of sin and death. 3 Indeed, what the law was unable to do, because it was weakened by the flesh, God did, when he sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to deal with sin.[c] God condemned sin in his flesh, 4 so that the righteous decree of the law would be fully satisfied in us who are not walking according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.[d]

Living in Harmony With the Spiritual Nature
5 To be sure, those who are in harmony with the sinful flesh think about things the way the sinful flesh does, and those in harmony with the spirit think about things the way the spirit does. 6 Now, the way the sinful flesh thinks results in death, but the way the spirit thinks results in life and peace. 7 For the mind-set of the sinful flesh is hostile to God, since it does not submit to God’s law, and in fact, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the sinful flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the sinful flesh but in the spirit, if indeed God’s Spirit lives in you. And if someone does not have the Spirit of Christ, that person does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit, who is dwelling in you.

12 So then, brothers, we do not owe it to the sinful flesh to live in harmony with it. 13 For if you live in harmony with the sinful flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the actions of the body, you will live.

The Spirit Assures Us We Are Children of God
14 Indeed, those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery so that you are afraid again, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom[e] we call out, “Abba, Father!” 16 The Spirit himself joins our spirit in testifying that we are God’s children.

17 Now if we are children, we are also heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, since we suffer with him, so that we may also be glorified with him.

Suffering Leads Us to Look Ahead to Heaven
18 For I conclude that our sufferings at the present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us. 19 In fact, creation is waiting with eager longing for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in the hope 21 that even creation itself will be set free from slavery to corruption, in order to share in the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22 For we know that all of creation is groaning with birth pains right up to the present time. 23 And not only creation, but also we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,[f] groan inwardly while we eagerly await our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 Indeed, it was for this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for something we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with patient endurance.

26 In the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we should pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that are not expressed in words. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints, according to God’s will.

28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, for those who are called according to his purpose, 29 because those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called. Those he called, he also justified. And those he justified, he also glorified.

Nothing Can Separate Us From God’s Love
31 What then will we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Indeed, he who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also graciously give us all things along with him?

33 Who will bring an accusation against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies! 34 Who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus,[g] who died and, more than that, was raised to life, is the one who is at God’s right hand and who is also interceding for us! 35 What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 Just as it is written:

For your sake we are being put to death all day long.
We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.[h]

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor rulers, neither things present nor things to come, nor powerful forces, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

Nothing in this text neither about speaking in tongues or praying in tongues.   

[johnthebaptist]

6 hours ago, Willa said:

Jud 1:20  But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit  Jud 1:21  keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1Co 14:4  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Rom 8:15  For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."  Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Rom 8:27  Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Cor 14:27-28 RSV

[Willa]

7 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

One does not have to speak in tongues to pray in the Spirit.

 

True.  God's gifts are like power tools.  You can do it by simple tools but power tools make it a lot easier.  God gave them to us to do His work.  The only one that is for strengthening ourselves is tongues.  The rest are for strengthening the church, which is wonderful.  There are times that our own faith needs to be built up such as this pandemic, and God gave us a tool to help us pray according to His will.  I believe that this should be used in private and not in the church.  I also realize that it has been misused.  No one has to do this.  It just helps. The Holy Spirit is our parcalate, our Helper, Comforter, Advocate. 

[Paul James]

On 5/29/2019 at 3:47 AM, BorderCowboy said:

You can't pursue anything from the Spirit the Spirit provides. And I believe that when the "disciples spoke in many tongues" this was in reference to many languages in order to be able to spread the word more efficiently. I think thisother conceptof tongues originates from ignorant misinterpretation.

Just my two bits,  JJ

If that is so how to you reconcile 1 Corinthians 14:2 where it say that when a person speaks in tongues he speaks to God because no one understands him?  Do you think Paul was ignorant misinterpreting what tongues actually is when he wrote that verse?

[Paul James]

On 3/7/2020 at 12:54 PM, johnthebaptist said:

I haven't figured out what purpose is served in speaking in tongues unless someone understands what I am saying.

Someone does.  According to 1 Corinthians 14:2 it says that praying in tongues is to God, so it is fairly clear that He understands it, even if no one else does.  I guess you are satisfied with just praying from your mind, and when you don't have any more words to express yourself, you stop praying.  Paul didn't.  When he ran out of words, he prayed in the Spirit and so he was able to pray without ceasing.