IF...

[tsth]

2 Timothy 2:

10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[jc49]

Shalom everybody,I have found this,read please and tell me your views,

love in Jesus to all:

Can a saved person ever be lost?

See this page in: Dutch, Hungarian, Spanish

[Guest Bro David™]

Yes a saved person can loose his/her salvation.

Just search the Bible for Judas and Ananias and his wife.

YBIC

[BigJer]

Matt 6:14-15  For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Ro 8:12  Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

I Cor 15:2  By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

I Pet 1:10-11  Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Rev 2:5  Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

[Christ's Free Servant]

I love my little girl so much.  I want only the best for her. She has a disease in her body called diabetes.  It is a disease that has to be controlled, much like the disease of the spirit we call sin.  If she eats properly and does as the doctor says her disease is under control. If she does these things she can play and enjoy life just like all her friends.  If she doesn't, she will get worse and worse.  She won't enjoy her life so much because she could possibly loose a limb or her eye sight or even worse, she could progressively get worse and die.  I have led her to the right places to get help. Her diet, her medications and a good doctor.  If she follows those directions she will be o.k., but if not she will falter.

We have been given the right food, the Word of God,  for our spirit and the Holy Spirit to lead us in the right direction, Jesus is our Medicine.  If we do as prescribed we will be Spirit controlled and be able to walk the walk.  But if we don't eat right and listen to our Great Physicial we could be on a path of distruction.

The longer we stay off our "diet" and the longer we neglect our Dr.'s orders, the farther away from good health we get.  As long as we are under the hand of the Great Physician we are safe, but if we come away from His hand, we are in danger of the "disease" taking over.

If we put our trust in Jesus, He promises to complete what He started in us to the finish.

If we take hold of that life raft out in the middle of the ocean we will live, but if we don't we will drown...common sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry to hear of the illness of your daughter. I understand the analogy, too. So, how about if you took hold of the life raft initially, but as time progressed, little by little you let go until you let go entirely. So, at first salvation was a "sure thing," but you didn't stay with it, and so when it comes time for the rescue boat to come around to complete your salvation, you are gone. You have sunk deep into the middle of the ocean. All hope is now lost. This is what I am getting from these passages of scripture. They are not saying that we will have less of a quality of Christian life, though that is true, but they are saying that we are at risk of losing our salvation if we don't hold on to the life raft. So, the question still stands. If we let go, according to these verses, do we lose the prize?

[Christ's Free Servant]

Shalom everybody,I have found this,read please and tell me your views,

love in Jesus to all:

Christian Answers Network HOMEPAGE and DIRECTORY

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate your input. I agree that the scriptures you quoted say that we have eternal salvation guaranteed and sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. But, the scriptures I quoted and that... oh, what's his name, you know the other person on this post who quoted scripture and has the person carrying the cross as his signature, seem to indicate that salvation is conditional on us continuing in that faith and obedience. Salvation, as we know, is not completed until Jesus returns, so the question still remains, based upon the scriptures I quoted and the other guy quoted, is salvation conditional? Let's try to stay with those scriptures, ok? Because they are the ones I need an answer for. I know all of the eternal security verses backwards and forwards. I have been studying this stuff for over 40 years. And, I still can not reconcile the eternal security verses with the verses me and this other person quoted on here. I have always had this struggle. Again, I have never doubted my own salvation, so that is not the issue, either. I want to know how to translate these verses and how to reconcile them with the eternal security verses. Does anyone know?

[Christ's Free Servant]

2 Timothy 2:

10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suzanne,

Thanks for the scripture. How do you reconcile this? I have always felt that if a person has a free will to accept Christ, then it stands to reason that the person would not lose his free will after accepting Christ. There is also the story of the four kinds of soil that I have always wondered about and the verses that talk about quenching the Spirit and grieving the Spirit, etc. I am very concerned over this new way of presenting the gospel that totally leaves out our death to self; our coming to the cross of Christ in humility; our repentance; our confession of sin, etc.

This new gospel just tells what Jesus did for us and offers a prayer of faith (still not sure what they think their faith is in) in Christ and then they are given a guarantee of a home in heaven and they are not confronted with their sin because heaven forbid that we should offend them and scare them away from Christ. They don't have to repent and nothing really is required of them other than they are encouraged to attend church and read their Bible and pray.

God has put such a burden on my heart to present the need for repentance and taking up our cross daily and following Christ and I have always had concern over these verses that seem to indicate that salvation is not a "sure thing" just because someone went to an altar and prayed a prayer to receive Christ. I see so many scriptures, like all of First John and the book of James, for example, that teach just the opposite of the "eternal security" verses. But, then that raises the question of "at what point can I lose my salvation?" and if it depends on me, then where is grace?

I take up my cross daily and follow Christ, but there are a whole lot of people out there wearing the name of Christ that I truly believe have no idea what it means to be crucified with Christ, because their churches won't teach that for fear of losing their congregation to another church who will tell people what they want to hear.

[Christ's Free Servant]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Orr v'emet]

Sue:

The dilema that you present here is one that I very much understand and have wrestled with myself. As a matter of fact it is not an issue that has been resolved for me either to one degree but to another it has. I would probably confuse many to say that I believe my postion with Christ, in heaven one day is secure though I don't buy OSAS. I completely agree that there are many who say they are "christians" who haven't considered the cost and become a disciple (Luke 14:25-35) as Jesus describes one (not to say one can be perfect). I don't know that the issue will ever be resolved for me in the sense that I wouldn't say that I can get on one side of the issue 100%. What it boiled down to for me was the question of, what does it really matter for me which I believe? If I'm doing what Jesus tells me to do, to be one of his disciples, then it doesn't matter if I believe my position is secure or not. I will be on the right road and I will see Him in heaven. If I'm not doing all that I can to be a disciple then really, my eternal position is not my only concern. A relationship with God isn't just for a free trip to heaven (or my ticket to avoid hell). It's much more than that. So I say all that to say, essentially, what does it really matter if you're doing what you're supposed to be doing? (not that I don't enjoy still studying the word on this issue and discussing it with other believers)

[Yahsway]

If God has given man free will to choose to follow Jesus as savior, could the same person also exercise that free will not to follow Jesus as savior? Accept Him and then deny Him? Peter did deny Him, but later after the sealing of the Holy Spirit preached boldly proclaiming Jesus as Lord even unto his death.

So, based on free will or free choice, can one choose to deny Jesus after being enlightened and proclaiming salvation thru Him? I think so.

Salvation to me is be ye being saved or sanctification. Its not just a one time sinners prayer and thats it. Thats faith, then we act on that faith until our death.Confessing, repenting, and proclaiming He is Lord until we meet Him face to face.