Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

[john1]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:37 AM, arachnogeek said:

Could there be improvements made? 

I just stay home and study the bible, but even though the church has lots of faults I believe that's the way God wants it.

1 Corinthians chapter 1 verse 21

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
 

 

You don't have to tithe to a church as long as your willing to give, I don't think it matters where you give.

[john1]

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

The church is not the church as it was when it was born at Pentecost

I agree billy graham died with 25 million, he must have been very greedy.

Acts chapter 4 verse 35

and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
 

[Guest]

1. Please define the

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

organized church systems

 

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

The ax must be laid

against. With specific examples.

 

2. Please describe

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

the church as it was when it was born at Pentecost

 

[ayin jade]

18 minutes ago, john1 said:

I just stay home and study the bible, but even though the church has lots of faults I believe that's the way God wants it.

1 Corinthians chapter 1 verse 21

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
 

 

You don't have to tithe to a church as long as your willing to give, I don't think it matters where you give.

Church isnt about studying the bible only. It is about worshipping the Lord in a corporate body setting. 

 

I think attitudes towards congregations/churches would change if folks started thinking of worship and not what do I get out of it.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, john1 said:

I just stay home and study the bible

How do you avoid Hebrews 10:25? It's not as if New Testament church was without serious error and sin, was it (note every letter of the New Testament)? So why do you not meet, yet the church, from Pentecost, sinful as it was, was told to?

13 minutes ago, john1 said:

1 Corinthians

chapter 16 verse 2

The New Testament pattern the Apostles of the Lamb created was to gather on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

 

How does your Bible study address these things?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, john1 said:

it was distributed to anyone who had need

Note that the context, though, that this was among Christians, not to 'any one in the world'...

Acts 4:32 "of those who believed"... "common property to them"... 4:34 "not a needy person among them"... 4:35 "distributed to each as any had need"

(Acts 6:1ff)

1Tim  5:3-16 - note the requirements to received this material-internal aid

1Cor 16:1ff/ 2Cor 8 / Rom 15:26 - a giving for "the saints" in Jerusalem

Sure, do good to all, but especially we should towards Christians (Gal 6:10). For whatever we do to the least of 'the BROTHERS of' Jesus, we do to Him. And how can we claim that we love Christ and show no practical aid to His body?

1 John 3:17-17, 4:20-21

 

I'll be the first to criticise the way in which churches do not give to their brothers or may be walking sinfully or have faulty structures, but to walk apart from Christ's members...? Consider the Maldives, where meeting other Christians may cost you your life. The leaders will answer for their overreach, but as long as there are the saved in Jesus, those clinging on to the true gospel, any other elements of faithlessness around this, to walk away is a worse rejection of Christ. The leaders will be responsible. But we also have responsibilities of obedience. Don't we? Or would we also be faultless, without blind spots in our leadership? Pray for them. I too long for the many faults to be fixed.

I've been the leaders prey, and do not come to this with rose-coloured glasses or without historic pain. I just want to encourage people to continue and be a part of the solution and not just run away. I'm attending where there are faults that I can't fix. There is a point where that is not on me, once saying it to the leaders. Still we gather, because the Spirit of Christ binds us. We will all answer to Him. There is not a perfect church, and neither would we be an attendee there. One day, from Zion, with the Lamb. Until then, we strive.

[arachnogeek]

11 hours ago, LukeRIC said:

I'm attending where there are faults that I can't fix.

This is a good reminder that no matter what model we ascribe to (home-church, mega church, etc.), there will always be faults that we can't fix. 

Having said this, it is a good thing to strive to reform the Church (sempre reformanda)

[john1]

17 hours ago, LukeRIC said:

How do you avoid Hebrews 10:25?

I never gathered with them, I tried to but they had  no answer.

Luke chapter 12 verse 1

 

Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: “Be[a] on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.   Isn't it the same today in church, they speak against sins that a very few people do, not the ones of the church like all the divorced people in the church, and those with investments instead of helping people. Look at these verses. 1 John chapter 1 verse 8 If anyone claims to be without sin the deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. James chapter 2 verse 10 If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point their guilty of breaking all of it.     Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently , you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household.   That also includes the law in the new testament.   Most people don't understand this because they haven't studied the bible enough. I now go through the bible every 3 or 4 weeks, and have been studying it 36 years I get something new out of it almost every day.   And I do my own worship all week, I play hymns on the harmonica almost every day on church steps that are closed because they can't collect any money, and once I'm finished with my bible study and hymns I pray.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, john1 said:

...I...worship...I play hymns...I'm finished with my bible study...I pray

Did Christ only die for one? Are there not 7000 God can preserve that do no bow to Baal?

11 hours ago, john1 said:

If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point their guilty of breaking all of it.

 

11 hours ago, john1 said:

That also includes the law in the new testament.

...Your neglect and lack of interest in Christ's body? Are not then you also a law breaker like those who

11 hours ago, john1 said:

had  no answer.

 

If you said something correct and they ignored you, then that is on them. I'm sympathetic to some elements of hypocrisy you raise (see my first post in this topic) within the church. But have you not become one of those hypocrites, saying, "I love the Bible" yet also "I don't meet with Christians"? This should be such an obvious thing.

Let me encourage you in love and not aggressiveness (it's hard to portray my internal drive with words). Meet and also, learn. No one person is given all the mysteries of the knowledge of God, for these are in Christ and are given to who he desires. We need to hear EACH OTHER.

Although I can agree that:

11 hours ago, john1 said:

Most people...haven't studied the bible enough.

Does your attitude reflect someone infiltrated by the Bible, say, the in the book of 1 John?

John Ch 1:13-14 * = plural

"But as many as* received Him, to them* He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who* believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

You are not alone.

[JohnD]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:37 AM, arachnogeek said:

Is there anything wrong with our current model of doing Church? Could there be improvements made? 

Are the following elements biblical? 

1. Tithing

2. Pastor salaries

3. Million-dollar church buildings

4. Seminary-trained pastors

5. Church incorporation 

Le me know what your thoughts are! 

 

Thanks 

 

 

Uh, man's way... tradition, dogma, denominational platforms, infiltrated seminaries...

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God's way... (Mark 7:13)

2 Peter 1:20-21

1 Thessalonians 5:21

1 John 4:1

Acts 17:11

1 Timothy 3:16-17