Is there a better way to 'do Church'?

[Heleadethme]

8 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

The unbelieving world has heard about Jesus from pastors, evangelists and missionaries, in some cases many times over, but they may not have seen Him in action even once. 

This is why we as believers must always walk in humility, truth, integrity, and with love. 

“For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps” (1 Peter 2:21).

Yes, I agree.....they have not seen Him in action, nor seen His true nature reflected through the church either....grace and truth working together.   We mostly seem to see either Pharisees or licentiousness nowadays and both of these ditches are wrong.  Jesus said to beware the yeast of the Pharisees and of Herod.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Badjao33 said:

This is not true. I started a thread about the abomination of bearing false witness which I feel is also very damaging to our witness to the unbelieving world. Unfortunately it has since been deleted.

No, what I am saying is that you would not bring up other sins like adultery or divorce or whatever in a thread about anything other than homosexuality.  This is the second thread where you have tried to make the foolish case that we are ignoring other sins, which we are not. 

Quote

According to his wife and son it was because he put the ministry before his family. It's our business because he is a predominant leader within the body of Christ.

No, it isn't any of our business.  It's best left to them and the Lord to work it out.  God is quite capable of handling that issue without our help and the only reason you bring it up is to deflect from the issue of homosexuality.

Quote

He even said he would resign if the divorce with his wife ever took place. How do you think his divorce and his actions that followed reflected on the Church as a whole to those on the outside?  

It didn't really cause any major waves.   Stanley preaches very compassionately about problems that people have in their lives.  He preaches about overcoming personal failures and preaches about being forgiving and is actually very encouraging to a lot of people.  He doesn't compromise on sin and is very straightforward about the reality of hell and sin.   But if you listen to his sermons for a year or so, you find that he is really very pastoral and tries to help people deal with tragedies and their own personal failings. 

So, it is not surprising that many regular people are actually very forgiving when he encountered his own personal life tragedies and his own contributions to those problems.   So it never rose to becoming a scandal.   And not only that, but many people in his church are divorced and so they are able to empathize and have the same kind of compassion on him that he preached about and encouraged.   That is why it was never treated like the scandal that still plagues men like Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Bakker. 

And people on the outside will always find something about us to criticize.   The world condemned Mike Pence BECAUSE he is faithful to wife and won't be alone with a woman other than his wife.   They called it sexist and a host of other awful things. They called Mike Pence crazy because he says that He talks to Jesus and Jesus speaks to Him.   So it really doesn't matter  what we do.  We reflect badly to the world when we fail and when we don't fail.  They hate us when we don't sin and mock us when we do. 

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Is this what the Bible teaches? 

I don't think you really care about that.   This is just your attempt to deflect from the issue about homosexuality that was raised. So you can spare us this fake concern over something like divorce. You don't really care about that. 

9 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Maybe it should have at the time because even today his divorce and the Church accepting it is still being used by some groups to expose the hypocrisy of Christians. 

Hypocrisy is when you justify in yourself the very thing you condemn in other people.   No one "accepted" his divorce.   No one said that it was right, or anything like that.   Charles Stanley didn't get up there and justify his divorce but condemn everyone else for theirs.  

People can find any excuse they want in order to condemn us.  And that is actually where the hypocrisy lies.  The world condemns Christians over the very sins they themselves are also found to be guilty.    Yet, they can explain and justify why THEY needed to get a divorce, but why they are justified in condemning preachers who have gotten divorced, either before they were in ministry or after they were in ministry.

But like I said, this isn't really what this is about.  It is about you and your attempt to deflect from the issue that was raised about homosexuality and whether or not people can serve God as practicing homosexuals.

[ayin jade]

5 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

What category do you feel Charles Stanley's divorce fell into?  Do you believe God approved his divorce from his wife?

Based on the people I know who have divorced and remarried, most have not followed the Biblical regulations. I would guess that the percentage of justifiable divorces and remarriages are pretty low. 

There's a long list of abominations that seem to get ignored in the Church. 

I looked it up. He did not file for divorce. His wife did. He tried everything to keep the marriage intact. He has not married anyone else. And she is dead now. I have no idea why she filed for divorce though. So in this case, I do not see that he violated scripture in the divorce. 

He is not my pastor or someone I follow. So what his past is does not matter to me. I look to Christ, not to people. Which is what others should be doing.

[ayin jade]

6 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

If you were serving in the communities of unbelievers, you would understand. When we only surround ourselves with other believers who hold the same opinions and points of views, it's easy not to see how those outside of our circle view us. One of the reasons that a lot of people in the unbelieving world aren't willing to believe what we preach is because we are seen by many as being hypocrites, liars, self righteous, and bigots.  As a believer it hurts to be viewed in such ways since we know Jesus does not approve of any of these traits from those who follow Him.  While it may seem I always have something negative to say about us, all I am trying to do is raise awareness to some of the many problems we have within the Body of Christ. Before we can effectively reach the lost, we have to first humble ourselves and admit that we too have our faults and recognize that many of the sins of the world exist within our own community. 

Ultimately those are just excuses to justify their unbelief. 

I lived for 2 yrs in a very pagan place where Christians are a small minority. My inlaws still live in such a place. 

[john1]

14 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Homosexuals need to repent of their sin and get saved.

But I sin, you sin, everybody sins, here's the only way I can see to be right.

Matthew chapter 21

³² For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Luke chapter 3

⁷ John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? ⁸ Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. ⁹ The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

¹⁰ “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.

¹¹ John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

¹² Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”

¹³ “Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them.

¹⁴ Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”

He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, john1 said:

But I sin, you sin, everybody sins, here's the only way I can see to be right.

There is only one way.  "...Ye must be Born Again." ~ Jesus  (John 3:7)

[john1]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

There is only one way.  "...Ye must be Born Again." ~ Jesus  (John 3:7)

Here's the only way to be born of God, it's also the only way to know God.

 

1 John chapter 4 verse 7

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

 

Jeremiah chapter 22 verse 16

He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD.

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, john1 said:

Here's the only way to be born of God, it's also the only way to know God.

 

1 John chapter 4 verse 7

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

 

Jeremiah chapter 22 verse 16

He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD.

Nope, that is the fruit of being born again. 

The only way to be born again is to accept Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior.  Until you do that, you are not born again.

[john1]

14 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The only way to be born again is to accept Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior.  Until you do that, you are not born again.

We disagree again, and the sinners prayer is not in the bible anywhere.