The timing of the 6th seal

[Steve Conley]

1 minute ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Dragon - Antichrist system in the 70th week (Rev 13-17)

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Hallelujah

[Heb 13:8]

Just now, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Hallelujah

Right, and he deceives the whole world through empires and kings on the earth. The seven heads and seven horns represent empires and kings in a future 70th week, Dan 7:17, Rev 17:9-10.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space

[iamlamad]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:33 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

Right, and he deceives the whole world through empires and kings on the earth. The seven heads and seven horns represent empires and kings in a future 70th week, Dan 7:17, Rev 17:9-10.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space

Sorry, not true.  John tells us that 5 of the 7 "heads" are history - empires that came and went. One "IS" or we could say "was" in John's time, and one was to come, and is still to come. It will be the empire or kingdom of the Beast.

Heads are empires, or nations, or countries, with "kings: or leaders of each country. One "head" or nation suffered a deadly wound. Do we know of a nation that is close to Israel, and at one time controlled Israel - but had received a deadly wound? What about Iraq (Babylon)? As Babylon, she once controlled Israel. But in these last days received a deadly wound, and her "king" was hung. Will Iraq "recover?" In my mind this means Iraq will once again become a strong Muslim nation that will hate Israel. I wait and see. 

[iamlamad]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:29 PM, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Hallelujah

It seems he skips over this verse in his theories!

[iamlamad]

On 7/24/2018 at 11:22 PM, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

You are correct, the day of the Lord does begin at the rapture. You are incorrect in thinking that the rapture happens before the sixth seal is opened. It happens at Christ's parousia, when He reveals Himself to all the world, following the cosmic sign and great earthquake that John witnesses at the opening of the sixth seal.

Hallelujah

If we try to "fit" 1 thes. 5 into Revelation, there is only one place it fits - and that is just before the 6th seal.  I think Steve is correct here. 

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, not true.  John tells us that 5 of the 7 "heads" are history - empires that came and went. One "IS" or we could say "was" in John's time, and one was to come, and is still to come. It will be the empire or kingdom of the Beast.

Heads are empires, or nations, or countries, with "kings: or leaders of each country. One "head" or nation suffered a deadly wound. Do we know of a nation that is close to Israel, and at one time controlled Israel - but had received a deadly wound? What about Iraq (Babylon)? As Babylon, she once controlled Israel. But in these last days received a deadly wound, and her "king" was hung. Will Iraq "recover?" In my mind this means Iraq will once again become a strong Muslim nation that will hate Israel. I wait and see. 

iam, the fourth beast in Dan 7 is still future. It's referring to the beast in Rev 13-17. This is what happens when you deny Rev 12:1-5.

[Dennis1209]

On 7/16/2018 at 12:06 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Not true. Like every word is not true. There is no pretrib 'rapture'. A nonsense concept as nothing in scripture suggests such a thing; even the word 'rapture' does not exist in scripture. How can anyone believe in a concept that is not even named in the source material?"

 

Explain this to the forum in your own words:

[1 Corinthians 51-58] [1st Thessalonians 4:13-18] 

I disagree. From the Latin Vulgate we have the word "rapturo" in which we derive the English word 'rapture" In the Greek translation, this word "rapturo" is translated "harpazo". The common meaning is; caught up, violently snatched away, carried away. Any disagreements with that?

The Bible is loaded with promises, types, shadows, figures and inferences for a pre tribulation Rapture.

 1 Thessalonians 4:18 (KJV) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

A little study on the verse above shows what and why we are comforting one another. The 1st century Jewish wedding is an exact and perfect 'type' and 'figure' for the Rapture. From the time of betrothment through the preparation of preparing a dwelling for his bride, to the surprise announcement the the groom is there to get his bride, does the bridegroom severely beat up his bride. I could go on and on but the picture is evident and clear to me, that as His children we are not appointed to the wrath of God or the "Great" tribulation. We are appointed unto tribulation in our daily lives through the ages, but not the Great Tribulation in my view of scripture. 

The Book of Revelation is a clear picture of the church being absent in the tribulation. I think the church is mentioned some 19 times in the first three chapters. Then suddenly the church is not mentioned ever again until the end of the book, with the Saints accompanying the Lord at His second coming. 

Just my hermeneutics of scripture and when plain sense makes perfect sense, seek no other sense least I end up with nonsense. 

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I disagree. From the Latin Vulgate we have the word "rapturo" in which we derive the English word 'rapture" In the Greek translation, this word "rapturo" is translated "harpazo". The common meaning is; caught up, violently snatched away, carried away. Any disagreements with that?

The Bible is loaded with promises, types, shadows, figures and inferences for a pre tribulation Rapture.

 1 Thessalonians 4:18 (KJV) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

A little study on the verse above shows what and why we are comforting one another. The 1st century Jewish wedding is an exact and perfect 'type' and 'figure' for the Rapture. From the time of betrothment through the preparation of preparing a dwelling for his bride, to the surprise announcement the the groom is there to get his bride, does the bridegroom severely beat up his bride. I could go on and on but the picture is evident and clear to me, that as His children we are not appointed to the wrath of God or the "Great" tribulation. We are appointed unto tribulation in our daily lives through the ages, but not the Great Tribulation in my view of scripture. 

The Book of Revelation is a clear picture of the church being absent in the tribulation. I think the church is mentioned some 19 times in the first three chapters. Then suddenly the church is not mentioned ever again until the end of the book, with the Saints accompanying the Lord at His second coming. 

Just my hermeneutics of scripture and when plain sense makes perfect sense, seek no other sense least I end up with nonsense. 

Hi Dennis.....

The word 'church' may not be mentioned, but 'saints' and 'brethren' are. So are you saying that these are not part of the church?

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

iam, the fourth beast in Dan 7 is still future. It's referring to the beast in Rev 13-17. This is what happens when you deny Rev 12:1-5.

Of course the 4th beast of Daniel 7 is future, but he is NOT one of the five heads that John wrote were already history.  He is the one still to come. And this is what happens when you understand John.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Yes, this man child is Michael (Dan.12:v.1), but not JESUS.   JESUS would not go to be born again in the time of Apocalypse evidently.  Furthermore, Revelation 1:v.1 says:   1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John:   (Now, now, JESUS was not revealing He would go to be born in this present time, of course.) 

 

Revelation 12:1-2 & 5 & 7

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Coments

The material things are figures of spiritual things. 

"a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet",

The believers know that the Church of our Lord JESUS Christ is simbolized by a woman.  

"a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon..."

Genesis reveals God created two great lights, Sun and Moon, but one is greater than other

v. 16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. v.19 - And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.  

Again: the material things are figures of spiritual things. The Greater light to rule the Day is JESUS, as was prophesied by Malachi: 4:v.2 -  But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness (JESUS) arise with healing in His wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. By the way, JESUS was born in the fourth Day or fourth millennium after Adam, or around 4,000 years.

The Lesser light to rule the night is the person of the Holy Spirit. 

 

John did see a great wonder in Heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

John did see the woman (the Church of the LORD JESUS) clothed by the light of JESUS, and under her feet be the Holy Spirit, who gives support to the Church, the body of Christ, in the absence of the present body of Jesus.

 

"and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

The twelve stars of the crown of the woman are the twelve Apostles, which were chosen by the Lord JESUS.  By the way, JESUS said unto them: Mat.19:28 -  Jesus said unto them:

Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.  (Yea, the twelve Apostles of the LORD Jesus will be sat on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 

v. 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

v. 5 And she brought forth a man child (Michael), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne (Michael's throne).

v. 77 And there was WAR in heaven (heaven is not the physical space of Universe(sky), but celestial places in Christ. For better understanding, read Ephesians 1:v.3) : Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon (the Red Dragon, the own Satan incarnated - Rev. 13:v.11) ; and the Dragon fought and his angels.

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3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars (believers) of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman (body of Christ - the believers) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child (to devour , to destroy, Michael the man child) as soon as it was born.  (Similar fact happened with JESUS (Matthew 2:v.16)

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days - 1.260 days. 

See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. (Eph.5:15-16)

May the LORD God bless and keep us, and give us His protection 

 

 

Your theories are SO FAR OFF from the norm of Christianity they are not worth answering.  Rev. 1-5 is about JESUS. He is the one to rule with a Rod of Iron. Wake up!