The Restrainer.....Who....When

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Marilyn,

Thanks for your response. Hope all is well with you.

Yes, I agree that when the Body of Christ (the saints) are taken out of the way, ie: raptured, then the Lord will execute His judgments (wrath)upon the wicked, the unbelievers, the rebellious. 

I see this happening "Immediately after the tribulation of those days......Math 29-31". The dead in Christ are resurrected, and we which are alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds.....1 Thes 4:16-18

There is but ONE resurrection/rapture.......the first resurrection...Rev 20:6......and ONE rapture.....1Thes 4:16

Now, about the Restrainer.

I'm leaning toward Michael the Archangel being the Restrainer.

Daniel 12: says "he is the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people....and he will arise". He will stand aside and this is when his protection of the Jewish people will be no more. Satan has been trying for millennia to wipe them out, but couldn't because of Michael. Now Satan  will be able to do just that. It will be a "Holocaust on steroids"....unequaled since the beginning of time and never to be equaled again. When the Anti-christ sets up in Jerusalem, in the temple.......this then starts the Time of Jacobs trouble.... 

What is the very first thing Satan does when he is thrown out of heaven?......Rev 12:13 says he went straight after the Jews.

In 2 Thes 2, Paul reminds the Church at Thessalonica ...."Do you not remember that while I was with you, I was telling you these things? And now you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed"

Paul went to Thessalonica in the Book of Acts in Chapter 17. He went to the synagogue and reasoned with them, Jews, from the Scriptures for 3 Sabbaths. The only Scriptures he had was the Old Testament. And which Scripture from the Old Testament would he have used in talking about the Anti-christ? Probably the book of Daniel. 

Now, would it be more logical for Paul to  reason that it would be Michael, the protector of the Jews, that is holding back the Anti-christ, ........or the church, which had not yet come into being, because Paul was travelling around establishing churches? 

As the OP states, nowhere in Scripture does it state who is holding back the Restrainer.......nowhere!

How strange you would write that, when Paul wrote, "and now you know" who the restrainer is.

Why is it Paul knew, and after reading his letter he expected the readers to know, but you think no one knows?

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

2 Thess 2:3 has the Word FIRST IN IT....

Transliteration: prōtos

Pronunciation: prō'-tos

Part of Speech: adjective

Root Word (Etymology): Contracted superlative of πρό (G4253)

TDNT Reference: 6:865,965

Outline of Biblical Usage:

first in time or place

in any succession of things or persons

first in rank

influence, honour

chief

principal

first, at the first

 

English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. (The comma after first was man made)

NET Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

What Paul is saying is, the apostasia has to come first. He did NOT say or even hint that both the apostasia and the revealing has to come first.

It is the departing that must come first, and THEN (and ONLY then) can the man of sin be revealed.  Sometimes, Spock, you cause me to wonder....

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

...

There is but ONE resurrection/rapture.......the first resurrection...Rev 20:6......and ONE rapture.....1Thes 4:16

There will be TWO resurrections, one is called the chief or first or primary resurrection (depending on how the Greek word is translated.) One thing is certain; it IS the first resurrection in priority, but NOT the first resurrection in sequence. Another thing is certain: it is ONLY for the righteous - which is why it is first in priority. ALL the righteous - starting with Jesus - will have a part in this primary resurrection. Jesus was the firstfruits of this chiefest of all resurrections; then the bride of Christ will be the next wave, then the 144,000 will be the third wave...until ALL the righteous are resurrected.

You are also mistaken: Enoch was the first to be raptured or caught up. Elijah was the second. Jesus was the third.  There will be one rapture for the church - unless the beheaded during the days of GT will also be a part of the church. If that is the case, then there will be TWO resurrections for the church.  Did you not notice that in chapter 15, those beheaded begin to show up in heaven (in spirit form, of course.) Do you think they will never be resurrected?

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Well I don't see the need to diminish the work of Satan , Satan is a reality , and does actually do evil things, we shouldn't be in denial that he can be involved here and there.  Keeping dark secrets of lawlessness a secret and the identity of the antichrist secret is not elevating him that much, its something he would do. 

Where God comes into the picture is that it is US the church who control the timing. We have this great victory of our testimony as described in Rev 12, that causes the fall of Satan and forces the revealing of the antichrist. We often feel we need to influence governments and vote and sometimes even war against the new world order controlling the earth. It is the exact opposite, we must focus on the gospel, and by doing that SPEED UP the end, which will involve 3.5 years of antichrist control. Satan is powerless to rush this process, actually he wants to SLOW IT DOWN (shockingly yes, he gets angry when his time is short, he is not trying to get there quickly, he is trying to DELAY the 3.5 years). The 3.5 years will NEVER COME until the gospel has been preached to all nations, we control the pace, and when we have the great victory of our testimony, Satan will fall for that final 3.5 years as per Rev 12.  

This is really not truth either, the way you imagine it will happen. Did you not read in Rev 14 (after the midpoint so INSIDE the last half of the week) that ANGELS take the gospel to every human in their own language? THAT is where the gospel is preached to the entire world.  Sorry, we as the church do not control any kind of timing: the timing is set - fixed. God had this all planned from before Adam was created. 

Yes, the church's job is to bring the lost in, and that has been happening steadily from the beginning.  The 3.5 years is written in stone, so to speak, and will certainly take place. It seems sure, Satan will possess the man of sin and he will become the Beast of chapter 13. God has already said He will give the Beast 42 months. Again, that is written in stone and will surely take place.  The world wants a planet with no God, so God will give them what they want....but it won't be long before they will wish something different! The church will be raptured out before any part of the 70th week. What happens then will be entirely up to God to bring to pass what is written.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Nah we don't slow down the process, our job is to SPEED UP the process through preaching the gospel to all nations, then the end will come. Satan is restraining, we are speeding things up until Satan is overcome by the victory of the gospel as described in Rev 12. 

 

And the gathering only occurs AFTER the revealing occurs:

³ Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness^[a] is revealed

Sorry, but you are MIXING UP the day of the Gathering with the Day of the Lord. They are NOT THE SAME DAY! No scripture anywhere tells us the rapture happens inside the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is a DARK day, where God will begin to destroy this planet and the sinners on the planet.  On the other hand, the day of the rapture will be a day just like today, when people are saying "peace and safety."

³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [the Day of the Lord] shall not come, except there come a apostasia [or departing] first, and [THEN - after the departing] that man of sin [will] be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul is telling us that it is God through the church that is restraining the man of sin, PREVENTING his revealing until the proper time, but some day the church will depart, by way of the rapture or gathering, and will be "taken out of the way," and THEN the man of sin will be revealed.

The gathering then, or departing (apostasia) is what comes first.

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

How strange you would write that, when Paul wrote, "and now you know" who the restrainer is.

Why is it Paul knew, and after reading his letter he expected the readers to know, but you think no one knows?

iamlamad,

Bible scholars, theologians, translators, etc.....they all say that the identity of the Restrainer is never clearly identified.

But, if you know who the Restrainer, then please enlighten us. If he is clearly identified in scripture, it should be fairly easy for you to provide the scripture for us.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Marilyn,

Thanks for your response. Hope all is well with you.

Yes, I agree that when the Body of Christ (the saints) are taken out of the way, ie: raptured, then the Lord will execute His judgments (wrath)upon the wicked, the unbelievers, the rebellious. 

I see this happening "Immediately after the tribulation of those days......Math 29-31". The dead in Christ are resurrected, and we which are alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds.....1 Thes 4:16-18

There is but ONE resurrection/rapture.......the first resurrection...Rev 20:6......and ONE rapture.....1Thes 4:16

 

In 2 Thes 2, Paul reminds the Church at Thessalonica ...."Do you not remember that while I was with you, I was telling you these things? And now you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed"

As the OP states, nowhere in Scripture does it state who is holding back the Restrainer.......nowhere!

 

Hi JoeCanada,

Thank you for your concern about my health. I am improving, praise the Lord.

Now bro, there is actually two resurrections, two different types - ` ...resurrection of life....&...the resurrection of condemnation..` (John 5: 29)

The Matthew 24: 29 - 31 concerns Israel, His elect. The Prophet Isaiah tells us that the elect of Israel are brought from all the nations to Jerusalem, on horses, chariots, mules, camels, in litters, etc (for the Great earthquake has caused great havoc re: roads, etc)

And for the `Restrainer,` good to see you bring up the part about Paul telling his disciples these things. If we look in Paul`s previous letter to them, (the Thessalonians) then we will see that he tells them they are not in darkness, but are sons of the day, of the light. They know that when the Lord comes to the rebellious, it will be as a thief, thus they are to watch and be sober.

It is the Lord, by His Holy Spirit  that will usher in the time period of the Day of the Lord, as a thief, and thus it is the Lord, by His Holy Spirit, who is restraining evil, till time for judgment.

Marilyn, 

 

[ARGOSY]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but you are MIXING UP the day of the Gathering with the Day of the Lord. They are NOT THE SAME DAY! No scripture anywhere tells us the rapture happens inside the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is a DARK day, where God will begin to destroy this planet and the sinners on the planet.  On the other hand, the day of the rapture will be a day just like today, when people are saying "peace and safety."

³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [the Day of the Lord] shall not come, except there come a apostasia [or departing] first, and [THEN - after the departing] that man of sin [will] be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul is telling us that it is God through the church that is restraining the man of sin, PREVENTING his revealing until the proper time, but some day the church will depart, by way of the rapture or gathering, and will be "taken out of the way," and THEN the man of sin will be revealed.

The gathering then, or departing (apostasia) is what comes first.

On the contrary scripture DOES say that the rapture and the day of the Lord are the same day:

we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, ² for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ³ While people are saying, “Peace and safety,”destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Edited March 25, 2019 by ARGOSY

[ARGOSY]

the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, ²not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. ³ Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed

 

The second coming, our gathering, and the day of the Lord are ALL the same day, and the revealing of the antichrist comes before this.

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, ²not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. ³ Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed

 

The second coming, our gathering, and the day of the Lord are ALL the same day, and the revealing of the antichrist comes before this.

Hi ARGOSY,

Easy words to say, but harder to prove. Now the word Day, Gk, `hemera,` means a 24 hour day AS WELL AS a period of time. We know that when the heavens are opened and the Lord and His angelic army comes forth in power and great glory, that will be a specific day. (Rev. 19: 11 - 14,  Matt. 25: 31) However the period of time before that at the beginning of the tribulation right through to the New heavens and new earth is also called the Day of the Lord. ( 2 Peter 3: 10)

As to the Body of Christ being gathered together, that is called the Day of Christ. (Phil. 1: 6, 2: 26,  1 Cor. 1: 8, 2 Cor. 1: 14) That is separate from the term Day of the Lord, (God Almighty bringing judgment,  Rev. 15: 3) 

You need to study those terms a bit more bro, to understand what & when God is doing something. 

Marilyn.