Salvation and Sin

[Raven]

4 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Yes, yes they can. This narrative that we are responsible entirely for our own reactions is false. We are told many times in scripture to be careful of our words and deeds to not hurt others, but to be careful to act with Love.

Yes, that is true, because most people do not yet understand the truth. So by being unloving could trigger hurt feelings. 

Not all people react the same way to what someone may have said. Why? Because everybody has different degrees of understanding the truth. It always boils down to our own interpretations.

If someone called you a liar, and you still harbored guilt about some lie, you are more apt to feel hurt (exposed and vulnerable). But if you no longer lie, and made ammends to all previous lies, then you won't feel hurt.

People with hidden, or harboured sins, are more apt to feel hurt when threatened by someones says. There is also a lot more to this problem, many carry shame around with them, and say things to themselves like "you idiot", "I am hopeless", etc. These will always re-open past hurts whenever someone mentions, or suggests, something of their shame / guilt.

The humble and meek are more equiped to know their own truth, and are not easily hurt. I am not talking about humiliation, but being humble. So, if someone said to the humble "You are a liar", they will see that they have lied in the past (forgiven or not) and answer "Yes I am a liar". They have no need to protect themselves from the truth. Only the hurt fear the truth.

 

[JohnKing67]

On 9/21/2018 at 10:45 PM, Jayne said:

Jesus said in teaching people to pray, "Forgive us our trespasses and we forgive those who trespass against us."  Why do we need forgiveness from trespass if we live sinlessly?

Jesus said to Peter the night before he [Jesus] was crucified, "The devil has asked to sift you as wheat, but when you return, you will lead the brothers."  Jesus knew and told Peter that he would sin grievously.

 

You're right, Peter did sin. But I don't believe we hear about him sinning again after going to the upper room and receiving the Holy Spirit. If anything I think Peter's sin teaches that it's possible to backslide into sin after being saved and then return again to forgiveness.  Which would go against the belief of "once saved always saved".  

[Raven]

11 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said:

You would have to include the works of the flesh in the New Testament also because I believe Paul said that those who committed the works of the flesh would not inherit the kingdom of God. 

All works of the flesh stem from the belief that one is the body, which is a falsehood.

Jesus died on the cross to show that we are not the body. And then resurrected, and ascended, to push this truth home.

[Billiards Ball]

48 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said:

Thanks for the reply.  I don't happen to believe in the forgiveness of future sins.  I was taught that if you sin you have to start your first works over again.  Meaning you have to repent and be forgiven again.  I may not be knowledgeable enough in the Bible to completely defend that position but it's what I believe.  I'm still learning though.  

1. Your Bible study should focus on whether your repentance saves or whether Jesus saves

2. You take a lighter view of sin than I do, since sin to me is imperfection, I sin often and dont have time enough to repent enough if my repentance saves me

3. Careful, you have a Roman Catholic look at salvation there, not a biblical one

Edited September 24, 2018 by Billiards Ball

[Billiards Ball]

55 minutes ago, Raven said:

Goal is an objective to aim at. Without it, you won't know which way, or how, to go.

Which is better understood. "Go, and sin no more", or "go, and try not to sin"?

Humans always look for an easier way out. The second option invites compromise, excuses, and sin.

You are mixing two concepts together. The woman was told "stop committing adultery." The Bible tells us what most Christian's already understand, sin will not be completely eradicated before the Rapture.

[Billiards Ball]

42 minutes ago, Raven said:

Truth is, nobody can hurt anyone's feelings. What hurts is our own story about what someone said to us. 

Many say that truth hurts. But it does not, it actually liberates. What hurts is our ego squirming at losing self-esteem (humility, guilt, etc).

Not even a lie hurts our feelings, for all our hurt feelings come from our ego, our false-self.

Deeper truth is, we are spirit. We are not the body, though we have one. Getting lost in the idea of being the body is being absorbed by 'flesh'. We, the spirit, has a body to express God in this visible world. That is our goal, is to stop sinning so the false-self is humbled enough to allow the spirit express truth and unconditional love.

I was using an analogy, you don't need to say feelings cannot be hurt, because Heaven is a place without sin, a utopia, even choosing to not have feelings hurt could be a choice of pride, which is a sin!

Most people, including unbelievers, reject sinless perfectionism. The good news is Christ died for sin then rose, not Christ died so we can struggle harder than before salvation to be less sinful.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Paul was a vastly different person......so am I as far as that goes.Paul referred to himself as “ chief of sinners” many years after he was saved.He wrote chapter 7 of Romans after he was saved—-I heard one preacher say Paul had been saved for ten years when he wrote this, I heard another say it may have been thirty years.The point is the closer you get to God, the farther away one sees himself.True repentance is a life-long state of mind......google Harry Ironsides writings in regard to repentance for a better understanding— IF you truly want to learn. God bless

[JohnKing67]

2 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

1. Your Bible study should focus on whether your repentance saves or whether Jesus saves

2. You take a lighter view of sin than I do, since sin to me is imperfection, I sin often and dont have time enough to repent enough if my repentance saves me

3. Careful, you have a Roman Catholic look at salvation there, not a biblical one

I don't believe I take a lighter view of sin.  Sin should be repented of.  But how does a person repent of sins he hasn't committed yet?  I think believing in the forgiveness of future sins is frankly just a license to keep sinning.  

[Raven]

13 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

You are mixing two concepts together. The woman was told "stop committing adultery." The Bible tells us what most Christian's already understand, sin will not be completely eradicated before the Rapture.

Thanks for reflected clarity.

[Billiards Ball]

6 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said:

I don't believe I take a lighter view of sin.  Sin should be repented of.  But how does a person repent of sins he hasn't committed yet?  I think believing in the forgiveness of future sins is frankly just a license to keep sinning.  

Sin should be repented of, but salvation is the work of Christ, not of our repentance, or prayer or humility or works. Please understand this, because, respectfully, to disagree could be to jeopardize salvation. None can boast in Heaven.