JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, maryjayne said: I am sorry if it seems a bit personal. i do not mean to be confrontational. I am asking as perhaps you are not in regular church fellowship and teaching, and that is leaving you to your own conclusions about what the bible says. Also, many of your replies suggest, to me, that maybe you are not being with other Christians in a Christian worship setting. That is why I ask. I am also concerned that maybe your church is not teaching the bible properly. I do not mean to be personal and wont ask again. That's ok. Whatever a church may tell you, you can always read the Bible for yourself and find out if what they teach is true, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: That's ok. Whatever a church may tell you, you can always read the Bible for yourself and find out if what they teach is true, right? I'm actually in the process of possibly going to a different church, if I can decide on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: Not doing better when you can is SIN. Sin is "missing the mark of perfection" in the Greek. The Bible also says "all wrongdoing [like not doing better] is sin" and the Bible says "whatever is not of faith [like not doing better] is sin". You are in the church for the same reason as me, you sin. Not an accusation, you seem like a strong brother who loves the Lord, but you are confused on this doctrine of "perfection". Perfection is in Heaven: 1) Only perfect people can live in Heaven (without messing it up for others) 2) Christ died to make imperfect people perfect 3) Born again Christians do a LOT better than others in most cases, but are imperfect 4) Born again Christians will be perfected at the Rapture, the blessed hope, saved Let's say you don't pay your tithe for a month. Is that a sin or is it just something that might cause you to not experience the full blessings of God. I would say the latter. I wouldn't necessarily call that a sin. I guess only God knows for sure. Edited September 28, 2018 by JohnKing67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: Let's say you don't pay your tithe for a month. Is that a sin or is it just something that might cause you to not experience the full blessings of God. I would say the latter. I wouldn't necessarily call that a sin. I guess only God knows for sure. I've read the Bible multiple times in multiple versions. There is sin and there is no sin. There is righteousness and there is unrighteousness. You are creating a third non-biblical category. You sin more than every few months, respectfully, in my opinion, but like all sinless perfectionists, you consider "little sins" not sins at all--the only way to make your doctrine work. If I skip a tithe, I might miss a blessing, sure, but if God prompts me, with, "Tithe, my child" and I don't, it's SIN. "Only God knows for sure" is an answer applied to any question we cannot find a Bible answer to, the Bible says, "Whatever is not of faith is sin." If I don't tithe because I don't have faith that I can afford it this month, I've sinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: Not doing better when you can is SIN. Sin is "missing the mark of perfection" in the Greek. The Bible also says "all wrongdoing [like not doing better] is sin" and the Bible says "whatever is not of faith [like not doing better] is sin". You are in the church for the same reason as me, you sin. Not an accusation, you seem like a strong brother who loves the Lord, but you are confused on this doctrine of "perfection". Perfection is in Heaven: 1) Only perfect people can live in Heaven (without messing it up for others) 2) Christ died to make imperfect people perfect 3) Born again Christians do a LOT better than others in most cases, but are imperfect 4) Born again Christians will be perfected at the Rapture, the blessed hope, saved I understand you don't believe in perfection and at this point I won't try to convince you any differently. You are obviously very secure in what you believe and in the end we all have to do what we feel the Bible is telling us to do based on how we interpret it. One thing I know about the Bible is if you get three different people to interpret a particular verse, you might get three different interpretations. So it is a tricky thing and I assure you I don't take it lightly, and I can tell you don't take it lightly either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: I understand you don't believe in perfection and at this point I won't try to convince you any differently. You are obviously very secure in what you believe and in the end we all have to do what we feel the Bible is telling us to do based on how we interpret it. One thing I know about the Bible is if you get three different people to interpret a particular verse, you might get three different interpretations. So it is a tricky thing and I assure you I don't take it lightly, and I can tell you don't take it lightly either. Yes, all that is needed: 1) Pray about your doctrine, you might want to start with "Lord, is this true, that most evangelicals who love the Bible are wrong, lost?" 2) Make sure you only use clear verses to interpret unclear verses: Unclear: "What must we do to be saved?" Clear: "Trust Jesus, and you and your household will be saved." A lot of very smart people struggle with the jargon words in places like 1 John. Good people, on both sides. Start with clear verses like John 3:16 - "Whoever trusts Christ will NEVER perish." That alone is reason to embrace eternal security. Here's some more clarity: "Salvation is a free gift of God" (Romans 6:23) and "The gifts of God are irrevocable (not returnable!)" (Romans 8). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said: Yes, all that is needed: 1) Pray about your doctrine, you might want to start with "Lord, is this true, that most evangelicals who love the Bible are wrong, lost?" 2) Make sure you only use clear verses to interpret unclear verses: Unclear: "What must we do to be saved?" Clear: "Trust Jesus, and you and your household will be saved." A lot of very smart people struggle with the jargon words in places like 1 John. Good people, on both sides. Start with clear verses like John 3:16 - "Whoever trusts Christ will NEVER perish." That alone is reason to embrace eternal security. Here's some more clarity: "Salvation is a free gift of God" (Romans 6:23) and "The gifts of God are irrevocable (not returnable!)" (Romans 8). Thanks for the advice. I'm probably going to try to stop posting because I feel I've said what I wanted and now I'm just repeating myself. I didn't intend to respond this many times as it is. No hard feelings hopefully? God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, maryjayne said: is it ok if i continue to pray for you? Sure, I don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 Maybe we can even keep in touch from time to time? Although if you don't want to that's fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 28, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 Bye all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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