The Prosperity Gospel VS the awareness of the Fall

[listener24]

Have you heard sentences like:

- "we have been blessed with this great house and family"

- "pray and your disease will go away"

- "The reason why bad things happened to him/her is because he/she let the devil enter his/her heart"

More often than not, in Christian churches, daily events are classified as either the direct intervention of Jesus or the Devil.

In doing this, it seems like we are forgetting a "little" detail: the whole creation has been corrupted by the fall (Romans 8:22-24), and things will only be restored with the New Heavens and New Earth.

Until then, instead of attributing everything directly to God, we could probably teach more sound doctrines.

A better understanding of the fall and of its consequences on this creation, can lead us to a better understanding of the Gospel of the Kingdom, and can turn our prayers from our worldly desires (Matthew 6:7, Matthew 6:25-34), to our blessed desire of the Return of the Lord.

Then more mouths will pronounce with a greater awareness the blessed prayer: "Even so, come Lord Jesus. Thy Kingdom come"

What do you think?

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by listener24

[Willa]

Check out Paul's life which he compares with the false teachers who might have been teaching the prosperity gospel

1Co 4:7  For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

1Co 4:8  Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! Without us you have become kings! And would that you did reign, so that we might share the rule with you!

1Co 4:9  For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death, because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men.

1Co 4:10  We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are held in honor, but we in disrepute.

1Co 4:11  To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are poorly dressed and buffeted and homeless, 1Co 4:12  and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; 1Co 4:13  when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.

 2Co 11:23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death.

 2Co 11:24 Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one.

 2Co 11:25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 2Co 11:26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 2Co 11:27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food,[fn] in cold and exposure.

 2Co 11:28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches.

 2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?

 2Co 11:30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.

 2Ti 3:10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 2Ti 3:11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me.

 2Ti 3:12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

[*Pumpkin*]

May I join in on this discussion? Thank you my brethren!

I guess my major contention with this prosperity "Gospel" is that it is self-centered and all about what God can do for them, rather than what can I do for God? The bible warns about those who seek to prosper materially will dig their own pit and ultimately leading to destruction (Eccl. 5:10; Prov. 11:28; 15:27; 28:22; Matt. 6:24; Lk. 12:15; 1 Tim. 6:6-10, 17-19; Heb. 13:5; 1 Pet. 5:2-3; 1 Jn. 2:16). I am stunned at the number of deceived men and women who flock to some of these mega-churches like Joel Osteen's church only for their own contentment and sordid gain, rather than serving God and helping the poor and the indigent. The topic of Jesus, Hell, and the consequences of sin are almost NEVER taught in these churches. This is a sign that we are living in the end times where apostasy will be prevalent; and where the sheep will be separated from the goats -- and the true converts from the false ones.

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." (1 John 2:15-17

In Christ, *Pumpkin*

[listener24]

Thank @Willa, verses on spot!

Thank you @*Pumpkin*! (Such an awesome, funny name)

1 hour ago, *Pumpkin* said:

I guess my major contention with this prosperity "Gospel" is that it is self-centered and all about what God can do for them, rather than what can I do for God?

This is definitely part of the issue, I totally agree. This is one part of the equation

I' d like to hear your opinion also on the other aspect. The reason why it is bad to be worldly as you point out is beacause this world has been corrupted by the fall. Therefore loving it means love something that fell away from God' s will

That is also why God doesn't intervene on fixing all the issues, otherwise this creation would already be His Kingdom, the new Heaven and Earth.

When we fail to teach this and people see this reality completely as under God' s will, attributing to God all sort of disasters, then unfortunately it is natural for them to expect always the best on this earth if they are "good Christians"and to become even more attached to the world.

Instead if we talk more about how fallen is this creation, probably people would be less prone to become worldly and will think more about Heaven, starting to desire the Lord to come sooner.

What do you think?

Edited November 4, 2018 by listener24

[Faithbuilders]

On 11/4/2018 at 12:46 PM, listener24 said:

Have you heard sentences like:

- "we have been blessed with this great house and family"

- "pray and your disease will go away"

- "The reason why bad things happened to him/her is because he/she let the devil enter his/her heart"

 

This is an example of how people hear this things they want to hear. First, it is NOT a "what can God do for me" but rather, "draw near to God, He will draw near to you... and he wants to bless you"  true "prosperity message" puts God first, always, then lets you know of how good God is! Next...

When we have good things, it IS God who blesses us with them, for He came to give us an abundant life, so my house, job, family... are ALL blessings of God.

It is not said, "pray and your disease will go away" but rather, "Jesus was already taken your sickness, and disease; all we need to do is except His healing!"

It is not "The reason why bad things happened to him/her is because he/she let the devil enter his/her heart" but rather, "it is an attack of the devil, for he comes to steal, kill, and destroy, but if we trust God, stand in faith,and obey God, God will rebuke the devil for us, and we will come out better than before."

[*Pumpkin*]

On 11/4/2018 at 3:02 PM, listener24 said:

Thank @Willa, verses on spot!

Thank you @*Pumpkin*! (Such an awesome, funny name)

This is definitely part of the issue, I totally agree. This is one part of the equation

I' d like to hear your opinion also on the other aspect. The reason why it is bad to be worldly as you point out is beacause this world has been corrupted by the fall. Therefore loving it means love something that fell away from God' s will

That is also why God doesn't intervene on fixing all the issues, otherwise this creation would already be His Kingdom, the new Heaven and Earth.

When we fail to teach this and people see this reality completely as under God' s will, attributing to God all sort of disasters, then unfortunately it is natural for them to expect always the best on this earth if they are "good Christians"and to become even more attached to the world.

Instead if we talk more about how fallen is this creation, probably people would be less prone to become worldly and will think more about Heaven, starting to desire the Lord to come sooner.

What do you think?

My apologies for the late response. I would agree with everything you had said above. I also believe that one of the biggest problem is self-centeredness; and those who are still "of" this world are not pursuing goals or rewards that are lasting, and things that honor God. The prosperity "gospel" has nothing to do with Glorifying God and teaching others to do the same; and it does not teach or instruct us to spiritually grow and to be sanctified from the world and its lusts. In onther words . . . they do not see the forest for the trees; as they are so caught up in the here and now and do not take into consideration the eternal ramifications resulting from what they have done while alive on Earth. The Psalmist said: "delight thyself in the LORD and He will give you the desires of your heart." (Psalms 37:4-5)

This passage has been taken out of context by so many prosperity word of "faith" teachers. Those who follow these false teachers believe that if they are in the pursuit of holiness and pleasing the LORD, then He will give them "their" desires (e.g., "a multi-million dollar condo, a $100,000 car, or a private jet"). What they fail to realise is that if one TRULY places their delight in the LORD, then it would naturally follow that their "desires" would be in accordance with God's will and will conform to His desires (i.e., "what is BEST for us"). I delight myself in the LORD, and my desires are now God-centered. I desire for the lost to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. As Paul put it:

"To those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life." (Romans 2:7)

As one popular bible teacher and Pastor once said regarding false teachers such as Joel Osteen and his ilk: "If you're on your way to an eternal hell, then your BEST life IS now; because it certainly isn't after you die." This is so true! This reminds me of the "parable of the rich fool" where the foolish man stored up earthly treasures only to be told by the LORD that his soul will be required of him that night. It grieves me whenever I see men and women so thrilled about their earthly possessions and boasting about it, and they have no saving relationship with God at all. And when they pass on . . . they will then see for themselves just how utterly "depraved" they were. By then it will be too late; and they will be sentenced to an eternal hell and Lake of Fire where there will be everlasting shame and regret. They need to understand where they truly stand in the eyes of an absolute Holy God who detests sin more than what most people can imagine; and just how serious sin is in the eyes of God. If they were to TRULY understand this, then there is HOPE. Salvation is offered to the "poor in spirit"; to those who have a broken and contrite heart about their sins, and the need for forgiveness and mercy through our Lord Jesus Christ. Anything short of that will ultimately end in destruction and misery regardless of how content they feel in the here and now.

In Christ, *Pumpkin*

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:28 AM, *Pumpkin* said:

My apologies for the late response. I would agree with everything you had said above. I also believe that one of the biggest problem is self-centeredness; and those who are still "of" this world are not pursuing goals or rewards that are lasting, and things that honor God. The prosperity "gospel" has nothing to do with Glorifying God and teaching others to do the same; and it does not teach or instruct us to spiritually grow and to be sanctified from the world and its lusts. In onther words . . . they do not see the forest for the trees; as they are so caught up in the here and now and do not take into consideration the eternal ramifications resulting from what they have done while alive on Earth. The Psalmist said: "delight thyself in the LORD and He will give you the desires of your heart." (Psalms 37:4-5)

This passage has been taken out of context by so many prosperity word of "faith" teachers. Those who follow these false teachers believe that if they are in the pursuit of holiness and pleasing the LORD, then He will give them "their" desires (e.g., "a multi-million dollar condo, a $100,000 car, or a private jet"). What they fail to realise is that if one TRULY places their delight in the LORD, then it would naturally follow that their "desires" would be in accordance with God's will and will conform to His desires (i.e., "what is BEST for us"). I delight myself in the LORD, and my desires are now God-centered. I desire for the lost to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth. As Paul put it:

"To those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life." (Romans 2:7)

As one popular bible teacher and Pastor once said regarding false teachers such as Joel Osteen and his ilk: "If you're on your way to an eternal hell, then your BEST life IS now; because it certainly isn't after you die." This is so true! This reminds me of the "parable of the rich fool" where the foolish man stored up earthly treasures only to be told by the LORD that his soul will be required of him that night. It grieves me whenever I see men and women so thrilled about their earthly possessions and boasting about it, and they have no saving relationship with God at all. And when they pass on . . . they will then see for themselves just how utterly "depraved" they were. By then it will be too late; and they will be sentenced to an eternal hell and Lake of Fire where there will be everlasting shame and regret. They need to understand where they truly stand in the eyes of an absolute Holy God who detests sin more than what most people can imagine; and just how serious sin is in the eyes of God. If they were to TRULY understand this, then there is HOPE. Salvation is offered to the "poor in spirit"; to those who have a broken and contrite heart about their sins, and the need for forgiveness and mercy through our Lord Jesus Christ. Anything short of that will ultimately end in destruction and misery regardless of how content they feel in the here and now.

In Christ, *Pumpkin*

 

Pumpkin.    Where are you .