ROMANS 14 and homosexuality

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, artsylady said:

I am out of time for today.  I could get caught up all day long but that's not healthy or good.  Besides, there are too many here, not you, who would refuse to rethink etc.

No, they refuse to accept what you say, no questions asked.  They think critically, and ask you hard questions and that bothers you.

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Can you give some thought that hormonal issues due to a corrupted and manipulated environment might just be at play here?  

 

Homosexuality is a spiritual problem, not a hormonal problem.

 

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Again, if you're counselling people, please give ample, reasonable thought to the other side.

All we need to do is point them to Jesus.  

 

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I'll go back to the lowest common denominator, here to.  Let's cut to the chase. 

David was "a man after God's own heart", yet a polygamist.  Comments please.  Also, it seemed God was ok with his many wives, just not the one who was married to someone else.  Am I wrong?  

The Bible doesn't condone David's polygamy and that polygamy caused him no end of grief.   The Bible nowhere said that God was pleased with David over that and there are many places that God was displeased with David.

But that does not justify the sin of homosexuality, as it is a class of sin that speaks to what God utterly abhors above all other sins, which is why it is to-ayvah (abominable). 

As for God calling him a man after his own heart, it doesn't mean that David was sinless and perfect.   It means that David had heart for God, for God's law and the worship of God.   David was a man with a sincere heart follow after God and he, like the rest of us had his ups and downs and times of victory and personal defeat.   But David's heart was passionate for God.  That is why God called him that.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, artsylady said:

Sounds like once-Godly people gave over to their sinful nature in every way - idol worship, orgies, wickedness, slander, disobedience, etc, etc, etc.

 

Would you put Ray Boltz in this category of depraved sinners?  

Yes and he was probably never a Christian to start with, at least not a truly born again Christian.  He was a cultural Christian and managed to make money in the Christian music realm.  He is in a lot of danger if he does not repent and turn to Christ.

[Guest 1sheep]

Just now, Sojourner414 said:

If you are attempting to use that as an excuse for this situation, then where does it end? Do we simply say "hormonal issues" and "corrupted environment" for any other sin while where at it? Are mass shootings, rapes, murder, arson, terrorism and the like all now cases of "hormonal issues" and "corrupted environment"?

Because if you want to use that excuse for one sin, you open they door for it to be used in every case of sin.

Yep. The world is evil because of hormonal secretions instead of being spiritually sick and in need of Christ to make them a new creation in HIM! 

Who knew? 

[artsylady]

22 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, they refuse to accept what you say, no questions asked.  They think critically, and ask you hard questions and that bothers you.

Homosexuality is a spiritual problem, not a hormonal problem.

 

All we need to do is point them to Jesus.  

 

The Bible doesn't condone David's polygamy and that polygamy caused him no end of grief.   The Bible nowhere said that God was pleased with David over that and there are many places that God was displeased with David.

But that does not justify the sin of homosexuality, as it is a class of sin that speaks to what God utterly abhors above all other sins, which is why it is to-ayvah (abominable). 

As for God calling him a man after his own heart, it doesn't mean that David was sinless and perfect.   It means that David had heart for God, for God's law and the worship of God.   David was a man with a sincere heart follow after God and he, like the rest of us had his ups and downs and times of victory and personal defeat.   But David's heart was passionate for God.  That is why God called him that.

And YOU know for a fact that environmental issues are not at play in todays world how?  I don't know how you could possibly know such a thing.

Where does it say that David's polygamy cause him 'no end of grief'?  

Seems like God didn't care that David was a polygamist, doesn't it?

[artsylady]

18 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes and he was probably never a Christian to start with, at least not a truly born again Christian.  He was a cultural Christian and managed to make money in the Christian music realm.  He is in a lot of danger if he does not repent and turn to Christ.

Wow, judge and jury much?

Do you agree that Jesus spoke out against being judgmental, prideful and self righteous more than a few times?  Certainly more than being 'homosexual' (which he never did.)  Why do YOU seem to take issue with it MORE than JESUS did?

 

[enoob57]

2 minutes ago, artsylady said:

Wow, judge and jury much?

Do you agree that Jesus spoke out against being judgmental, prideful and self righteous more than a few times?  Certainly more than being 'homosexual' (which he never did.)  Why do YOU seem to take issue with it MORE than JESUS did?

 

Do you know The Spirit of Christ in Paul said this

Eph 5:3-8

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
KJV
 

 

[artsylady]

18 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

If you are attempting to use that as an excuse for this situation, then where does it end? Do we simply say "hormonal issues" and "corrupted environment" for any other sin while where at it? Are mass shootings, rapes, murder, arson, terrorism and the like all now cases of "hormonal issues" and "corrupted environment"?

Because if you want to use that excuse for one sin, you open they door for it to be used in every case of sin.

Google 'study fish gay' and you will see that there are studies showing that due to mankinds 'brilliance', our water has been compromised and there are studies showing fish that now exhibit homosexual tendencies and transgenderism and a particular pesticide can turn male frogs into females.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080216095726.htm
https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/

http://naturalsociety.com/studies-chemicals-in-the-water-turning-male-fish-into-females/

Surely you must be aware that the meat and dairy industry use growth hormones and estrogen.  

You might also want to consider the fact that decades long use of the birth control pill has caused damage to the ecosystem.

https://www.livescience.com/20532-birth-control-water-pollution.html

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/birth-control-in-drinking-water-a-fertility-catastrophe-in-the-making

Is it really beyond the power of reasoning to suggest that mankind's manipulations that has clearly caused havok with the eco systems, might also be messing with human physiology>?

I am not trying to give an excuse, but a possible reason - a cause and effect.  There is a difference. 

I always try to cut people slack whenever I can.  I am just like that.  I try to see the best and try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

[artsylady]

18 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

If you are attempting to use that as an excuse for this situation, then where does it end? Do we simply say "hormonal issues" and "corrupted environment" for any other sin while where at it? Are mass shootings, rapes, murder, arson, terrorism and the like all now cases of "hormonal issues" and "corrupted environment"?

Because if you want to use that excuse for one sin, you open they door for it to be used in every case of sin.

Why would you stretch it like this?  I never said anything of the like.   Why don't we just stick to the argument rather than make up pretend ones that I never said?

[artsylady]

14 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Do you know The Spirit of Christ in Paul said this

Eph 5:3-8

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
KJV
 

 

I am not sure why you steered the question about Jesus and the fact that he clearly cautioned against being judgemental, prideful and self righteous and never against being homosexual?  Why did you change the subject?

The spirit of God in Paul also said women shouldn't cut their hair and that they should not speak in church.  Do you believe this to be a rule all Christian women should follow?

[artsylady]

1 minute ago, maryjayne said:

another red herring.

Regardless of the causes of homosexuality, in all its forms,this truth remains: sexual acts, outside the God degree arrangement of a married man and woman, is Sin. It is Sin. NO ifs or buts, not caveats. Its straightforward sin.

When Jesus or anyone in the bible spoke of the Last Days, the sins were not changed. There was no provision added for those who have desires outside of male/female marriage. 

The devil pulls a lot of tricks and maybe the manipulation of our ecosystem might just be one of them.  Is that something you can consider?  

Maybe this is what's happening, and of course, God in his wisdom, knew what the future would hold and maybe that's why Jesus never said a word against homosexuality in a day and age where it was rampant?

 I am going to err on the side of being non judgmental, humble, hoping and seeing the best in people, and loving.    

If I get to heaven and I have done nothing but love and accept gay people and told them God loves them, I don't think God is going to reprimand me.  After all, it's not up to me to judge.  I am just supposed to love.  I leave it up to God to judge as he said we are supposed to do.