Guest In Him Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Whistleblower said: Agreed, but by not breaking it : ) Amen!! and Amen!! Thank You, Father. Edited November 17, 2018 by In Him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Whistleblower said: Knowing that Christ/Messiah isn't a fool, it would seem that lots of humans recieve stripes & punishment, for that matter, " i" lol have received punishment : ) I have no idea what that means or what you are talking about or what that has to do with what Jesus did on the cross. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins in full, on the cross. That is what it means when we say that it is a "finished work." Quote aand Faith in what? The name? Or what the Title Christ/Messiah stands for? Faith in Jesus as our Lord and Savior. When we place our faith in Him and trust Him for salvation, we are justified (placed in legal right standing) by faith. Righteousness is imputed (credited to us) on the grounds of faith alone in Christ alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joulre2abba Posted November 17, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 463 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/08/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Whistleblower said: This is asked on the basis of these facts. The work was Finished on the Cross. What work? #1 To Fufill Our Fathers Words of old about His Annointed One. #2 To Affirm & Confirm Our Fathers Words of old. #3 To create a New way to contact Our Father WITHOUT the Levitical Preisthood, doing it Christs way, Not the ways of mankind, and becoming The High Priest for one & ALL. #4 Being the sinners/ mistakers that we All are; that Our Father shall still hear us, IF! we do it Christs way; Repent FIRST in Christ/Messiah, then talk to Our Father Love : ) So is it just blind faith? For if one Knows the real Christ/Messiah, one also Knows the Law : ) For Our Father Love says that " sin in ignorance is no sin" BUT ONCE YOU KNOW : ) I got saved when I was of grade school age, but that didn't mean that I knew the law, or that I walked in it daily. What is the law? Rom.13 tells us that loving ones neighbor as themself is the fulfillment of all the 10 commandments. But, having memorized the scripture verse that says that we must treat others as we would want to be treated.. didn't keep me from making social mistakes, because I'd been told in Sunday school to memorize it in order to recite it in front of the assembled Christians in a church service. I didn't think about it as something to live by everyday.. because I hadn't been told that I should. I treated the lessons like those in secular school, memorize to pass the written test and then forget them. You mentioned the phrase: sin in ignorance is no sin. There's a lot of unspoken theology in that that is assumed would be known. We all know what we know because we have the Bible to tell us what we should know. We also have preachers to tell us what we should know in case we haven't read that topic yet or lately. Sinning in ignorance doesn't make repentance unnecessary. It means that repentant sinners would not be approaching an angry God. Repentance does not mean being sorrowful for sin committed. It means being convicted and turning away from sin and unto God. For God so loved the world. Because Jesus took upon him all the sin of the world. Which means that those who are sinning don't know that God loves and has already forgiven them. Jesus commissioned believers that they have the ministry of reconciliation to go and tell the sinner that God isn't counting their sins against them. That's for sinners who decide that they don't want to live as sinners anymore. And it's hope for Christians who struggle with sin, that they can live their lives free from sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted November 18, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Cletus said: is it really just faith? no, its grace thru faith. but to say repentance is works is error. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and either we choose to turn from our sin and to God or we turn away from God and go with sin. if we dont repent we have not allowed God to be Lord of our life, and God does not set us apart from the world, or sanctify us. I see its a growing trend to say believe and receive, which is a false teaching but at the same time leave off repentance. Jesus commands repentance. and its mentioned so so many times in the bible. I posted these scriptures in another thread, but i am going to post them here as well.... Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. 2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Ch 30:7 And be not ye like your fathers, and like your brethren, which trespassed against the LORD God of their fathers, who therefore gave them up to desolation, as ye see. 2Ch 30:8 Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you. 2Ch 30:9 For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him. Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. Zec 1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. Zec 1:4 Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye now from your evil ways, and from your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me, saith the LORD. repentance is not a work unless you believe by repenting you justify yourself before God. repentance is commanded. even in the verses above repent comes before believe the gospel(mark 1:15) and the order of things in scripture is of dire importance... and if you believe the gospel you want to repent. I can not understand why or how people try to say repentance is not apart of the equation when its thru-out the bible OT and NT. I lifted this from another thread....I thought it might be pertainent to the discussion here... If you have a KJV handy, pick it up and find me any verse that states we have to repent of our sins to be saved.If you can do this, I can connect you with a Bible teacher that will give you one million dollars. Now please do not misunderstand me.I value repentance.In fact , one will not be saved without it.The word “ repentance” comes from the Greek word “ metanoia” which means to “ change your thinking”. The gospel of John does not mention the word “ repent” a single time.Does that not strike you as strange? There is a good reason for that.If you take somebody that does not think he is a sinner, or one who thinks he does not need Jesus to be his only chance of being saved, and give him the Gospel and he goes from UNBELIEF to BELIETH he has had a change of mind that will save him.He has experienced the “ repentance toward God with faith in Jesus Christ” that God demands for Salvation.That is why John did not feel compelled to use the specific word “repent”. He did not need to.He always stressed the word “BELIEVE”. He knew if one chooses to BELIEVE instead of choosing NOT to believe in Jesus as God in the Flesh who came to die for all of our sins, he has had the “ change of thinking” (repentance) that God requires.AFTER one is saved, by believing Jesus was who He said He was, the God- Given Spirit that enabled you repent and see the truth about your lost condition and the remedy for it, will make you feel like a rat when you sin in your daily walk and that is the type of repentance that will make you confess your sin to God in order to restore fellowship.Yes, repentance has to happen, but we must understand what it is—— here is what it sounds like—- “ Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner” This person has proclaimed that he knows he is a sinner who needs a Savior....without that change of mind in a persons life that person is lost and will stay lost.I hope we can agree on these things.The desire to stop sinning is great and I am sure God is pleased with your intentions. I have that desire also but I realize my obedience to the Law did not save me and does not keep me saved—- only my faith in the Shed Blood Of Christ and nothing else accomplished that .The Shed Blood used to mean nothing to me....now it is everything. I changed my mind about that. I repented. Now I am saved.God bless. Edited November 18, 2018 by Blood Bought 1953 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted November 18, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2018 18 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: I lifted this from another thread....I thought it might be pertainent to the discussion here... If you have a KJV handy, pick it up and find me any verse that states we have to repent of our sins to be saved.If you can do this, I can connect you with a Bible teacher that will give you one million dollars. Now please do not misunderstand me.I value repentance.In fact , one will not be saved without it.The word “ repentance” comes from the Greek word “ metanoia” which means to “ change your thinking”. The gospel of John does not mention the word “ repent” a single time.Does that not strike you as strange? There is a good reason for that.If you take somebody that does not think he is a sinner, or one who thinks he does not need Jesus to be his only chance of being saved, and give him the Gospel and he goes from UNBELIEF to BELIETH he has had a change of mind that will save him.He has experienced the “ repentance toward God with faith in Jesus Christ” that God demands for Salvation.That is why John did not feel compelled to use the specific word “repent”. He did not need to.He always stressed the word “BELIEVE”. He knew if one chooses to BELIEVE instead of choosing NOT to believe in Jesus as God in the Flesh who came to die for all of our sins, he has had the “ change of thinking” (repentance) that God requires.AFTER one is saved, by believing Jesus was who He said He was, the God- Given Spirit that enabled you repent and see the truth about your lost condition and the remedy for it, will make you feel like a rat when you sin in your daily walk and that is the type of repentance that will make you confess your sin to God in order to restore fellowship.Yes, repentance has to happen, but we must understand what it is—— here is what it sounds like—- “ Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner” This person has proclaimed that he knows he is a sinner who needs a Savior....without that change of mind in a persons life that person is lost and will stay lost.I hope we can agree on these things.The desire to stop sinning is great and I am sure God is pleased with your intentions. I have that desire also but I realize my obedience to the Law did not save me and does not keep me saved—- only my faith in the Shed Blood Of Christ and nothing else accomplished that .The Shed Blood used to mean nothing to me....now it is everything. I changed my mind about that. I repented. Now I am saved.God bless. Luke 13: KJV 1 "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilæans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. {2} And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilæans were sinners above all the Galilæans, because they suffered such things? {3} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. {4} Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? {5} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted November 18, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,189 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,352 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2018 Yes it is. Scripture says the; “just shall live by faith” but it is the right true faith that scripture talks about. All men live by faith. It’s a matter of what they have faith in. One man has faith in the chair so his faith produces the work or fruit of sitting on it. Another has faith that the airplane won’t fall out of the sky so he falls asleep during the trip. All faith produces works of one kind or another. The proper faith produces the work of salvation. The thief on the cross had the proper kind of faith. And his faith produced the proper work to secure his salvation. His work was the result of the faith he had in his fear of God, so his faith prompted him to turn to Jesus and ask to be “remembered”. That was the proper work his faith produced. All faith produces work, it’s a question of having the proper faith that will produce the “works of salvation”. Some believers will produce greater works or the fruit of their salvation than others. But all that are saved shall produce works of salvation, be they large or small. The closer you get or the more your personal relationship with Christ grows, the more your faith in that relationship will grow, whereby producing the greater works of salvation, which among other things can be a turning to Him in a more real and deeper way. Much love in Christ, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discipler777 Posted November 18, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 606 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 102 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: The gospel of John does not mention the word “ repent” a single time.Does that not strike you as strange? There is a good reason for that. .... There is a good reason for that, ie the apostle John's main emphasis was for believers to know the Person of Jesus Christ, the Word who was God, and the way to salvation. ....... JOHN.1:6-9 & 19 & 23 (NKJV) = 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. ... 19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” ... 23 He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the Lord,” ’ . LUKE.3:2-4 = ... the word of God came to John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, 4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying: “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight. .... Edited November 18, 2018 by discipler777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 18, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,184 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,460 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 18, 2018 14 hours ago, Cletus said: The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and either we choose to turn from our sin and to God or we turn away from God and go with sin. if we dont repent we have not allowed God to be Lord of our life, and God does not set us apart from the world, or sanctify us. It's about essence 'ye must be born again'... when presented with God's Word the sinner is brought in line with the fact he/she is not of God and is in fact dead to the things of God... and that God 'IS' and The Who of Him stands before them as Rightful Judge. In this awful void of darkness the sinner realizes there is nothing in and of themselves to save them...In this place the heart can hear the knock of God upon it and repentance is the opening of that door and non-repentance is keeping it closed... that simple. Preaching of works to maintain a salvation not of works makes no sense for The Scriptures say 2 Cor 7:10 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. KJV How then can there be only one repentance to salvation? Only if The Essence of salvation is within by new birth and kept by The Hand of God Himself... and repentance afterward is keeping of relationship with nothing in between new birth and Holy Spirit Eph 4:30-32 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. KJV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistleblower Posted November 18, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 134 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 17 hours ago, Joulre2abba said: I got saved when I was of grade school age, but that didn't mean that I knew the law, or that I walked in it daily. What is the law? Rom.13 tells us that loving ones neighbor as themself is the fulfillment of all the 10 commandments. But, having memorized the scripture verse that says that we must treat others as we would want to be treated.. didn't keep me from making social mistakes, because I'd been told in Sunday school to memorize it in order to recite it in front of the assembled Christians in a church service. I didn't think about it as something to live by everyday.. because I hadn't been told that I should. I treated the lessons like those in secular school, memorize to pass the written test and then forget them. You mentioned the phrase: sin in ignorance is no sin. There's a lot of unspoken theology in that that is assumed would be known. We all know what we know because we have the Bible to tell us what we should know. We also have preachers to tell us what we should know in case we haven't read that topic yet or lately. Sinning in ignorance doesn't make repentance unnecessary. It means that repentant sinners would not be approaching an angry God. Repentance does not mean being sorrowful for sin committed. It means being convicted and turning away from sin and unto God. For God so loved the world. Because Jesus took upon him all the sin of the world. Which means that those who are sinning don't know that God loves and has already forgiven them. Jesus commissioned believers that they have the ministry of reconciliation to go and tell the sinner that God isn't counting their sins against them. That's for sinners who decide that they don't want to live as sinners anymore. And it's hope for Christians who struggle with sin, that they can live their lives free from sin. Flesh = Sin = Death, Our Father Love does not make Intentional mistakes, EG: Satan/Death. Yet Our Father Love made these flesh containers/bodies for us; But Our Father Love also says that it greived Him in His heart/mind that He had made mankind flesh (Satans will actually : ) But only Temporal : ) Unless i have misunderstood you, it sounded like we are forgiven before repentance? And that is not the case. Repentance is not only turning away from criminal behavior, but also being reformed through Exercising one mind in The Scriptures; Not just the Textbooks/Bibles. Because if one doesnt, one could get caught up in the solicited beliefs, theories or philosophies of mankind. And The Christ/Messiah is Actual, Factual, Historical Reality; How could one not not Know; after all of the things Our Father Love has done in & through His Annointed One : ) One Christ/Messiah/Church, many Flesh Temples & & & never forget many many instead-of-christs as forewarned by The Annointed One Himself : ) Truth never has been & Never shall be for sale lol and The Christ/Messiah Never sent beggars out in His name, quite the contrary actually : ) Rock On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistleblower Posted November 18, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 134 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 17 hours ago, shiloh357 said: I have no idea what that means or what you are talking about or what that has to do with what Jesus did on the cross. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins in full, on the cross. That is what it means when we say that it is a "finished work." Faith in Jesus as our Lord and Savior. When we place our faith in Him and trust Him for salvation, we are justified (placed in legal right standing) by faith. Righteousness is imputed (credited to us) on the grounds of faith alone in Christ alone. Faith is Old Testament teaching to the house of Isreal for the coming Messiah/Saviour; The Annointed One/Living Word came here not only for the reasons on this post; But most importantly to Defeat Death; How come everybody doubts that? He proved it! By Affirming/ Confirming & Fufilling of ,the Already spoken written/ recorded Words about Him, the Savior in & through Our Father Love's Annointed oneS; ( Moses & The Prophets) All the same Word only the OT has all the examples : ) Thats the work finished on the Cross. Only been getting worse ever since lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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