"Unless You Prove Bible Right I Stay Non-Believer"?

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, turtletwo said:

@Tampered With Thanks for this good point and the great scriptures.

marvel not ,  NO man can come to me , lest the Father draw Him .     We need to flee any kind of man made seeker friendly approach and reasoning through science or etc

as a means to win souls .  TRUTH ALONE is what we must speak .   And if they hear , WE PRAISE GOD ,  FOR HE ALONE is the ONE who opens and ears and the eyes .

Folks we are in trouble .  We got men trying to debate on how we can win athiests or buddits , or muslims or whoever ,  And they claim we have to use science

or now the Koran to be a better witness to muslims or etc .    WRONG .   ALL WE NEED TO know is not a what ,  BUT A WHO .     JESUS .    HE will give us a mouth

on what to say .    And some will hear and many will reject .    But HE IS ALL WE NEED .     And I wont budge FROM HIM .

We got folks trying to debate homosexuality and either condmen it or justify it , BY SCIENCE .   WRONG .     USE THE BIBLE .    GODS WORDS .  it don't matter what science says

or man says .  What matters is what GOD has said .   Folks we need to RETURN to CHRIST ALONE and USE the BIBLE to debate . FOR GODS WORDS , coupled with the SPIRIT

ARE ALL WE NEED .     BUT ,  I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS SISTER .    However ,  not all do .  

[thomas t]

23 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Folks we are in trouble .  We got men trying to debate on how we can win athiests or buddits , or muslims or whoever ,

I don't see where the trouble is "when men are trying to debate on how we can win athiests or buddits , or muslims or whoever ,"

23 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And they claim we have to use science

This is interesting. I didn't see anyone who went as far as to say we have to use science. May I ask: can you provide sources for this claim? I mean posts here on Worthy that show your allegation to be true?

I know that Tzephanyahu sometimes happens to use science to convince.

Tzephanyahu does great apologetics. He is very efficient in dissipating the doubts of believers and atheists alike (even believers have doubts sometimes). I'm talking about doubts that can be called objections to faith. Even some believers have it.

If someone does such a greatg job like he does, I wouldn't criticize him for doing what he's doing. Do you know anybody like him who answers objections to faith here on Worthy? If so, tell me. It's interesting.

I mean we have quite a couple of folks who answer people who are unsure, seeking... but when it comes to those who have strong doubts... who do we have apart from Tzephanyahu to answer them? Please tell me someone.

If he goes to another board. then who will do his job? I have no idea, I don't see anybody willing and able to replace him? He is working and you call that what? I would call it outreach.

Regards, Thomas

Edited July 7, 2019 by thomas t
clarity

[appy]

 

Hi Appy,

can you cite sources for this:

On 7/2/2019 at 6:04 PM, appy said:

[Unbelievers] like their sins and don't want to change

In my opinion, here on Worthy it is a huge problem that Christians think they can post no matter what about people they don't like. Other Christians vote these posts up frequently. They seem to love their brothers and sisters doing exactly this. So Worthy gets a place of unfounded accusations?

There is a simple rule I would highly recommend: whenever you post something detrimental to other groups ... back it up using sources, scientific data/analyses. OR don't post it. Would you join this kind of behavior?

Regards,

Thomas

The title of your thread and first line is about proof and disbelief of unbelievers. Right? You didn't want me to answer along those lines? Because that is what I was replying to in the other post. There are people that say “I just can't believe in a God who will judge people, then send them to hell”. Ever hear that line? There is a lot of pride in a hardened heart that resists submitting to the unquestionable authority of God.

The root of the problem isn't proof that the bible is true, but a heart issue. Since God has hardwired into all peoples the knowledge of Himself; He has also revealed to all, His anger against wickedness to all peoples. Not just some people, but all humans. The bible says that not only has He revealed Himself to humans but also that wickedness will indeed be judged. All of this is known to mankind instinctively without ever having read the bible or heard the gospel. Our own consciences prove this fact.

Romans 1 : 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 1 : 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him

Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie,

Romans 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 2:15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness,

Unbelievers of all walks of life; think they are basically good and take pride in what they consider good about themselves. And so, don't think they are in need of a Savior or having their sins forgiven. No human can say they, themselves or another person is basically good, so sins should be overlooked.  Sin is NOT determined by human measurements of goodness, but on God's standard of holiness. As a person reads the bible or hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit confirms that what they are hearing is truth. For a person to believe that the bible is true, must also believe that There is a God and that He requires for all humans to turn from sin. The person who believes, says “what must I do?” Contrast this with the person that says. . . “I don't believe it, prove it to me”.

Hebrews 11 : 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
 

[Tzephanyahu]

Shalom @thomas t

Thank you for your kind words.  Although I think you greatly overestimate my contributions!  However, I stand by your side on this matter, as I do on many matters. 

Christians should not be scared of science, but should embrace it.  Science is not contrary to faith anymore than mathematics is to love.  They are different subjects that can work in harmony with each other.  They are not in opposition.  To believe that they are is to fall for a big deception.

Some scientists have ill-motivation and are financially awarded for work that indirectly contradicts the Bible. That is, unfortunately, a fact.  Many believers and non-believers have become atheists from being bamboozled by this "bias science", and then disregard Christians as an ignorant and simple people.  That is, unfortunately, a fact.

Now, if any Christian out there feels insecure with defending their faith with science, that’s okay - It’s not mandatory and it does require research time.  But being able to do so will bring blessings, and can help pull down “mountains” out of the way of believers with a weaker faith.  In the same way, some Christians feel insecure around someone passionate for apologetics – and they can even discredit their work with lofty sounding words and ideals to belittle them:

On 7/6/2019 at 9:37 PM, frienduff thaylorde said:

We got folks trying to debate homosexuality and either condmen it or justify it , BY SCIENCE .   WRONG .     USE THE BIBLE .    GODS WORDS .  it don't matter what science says

 

On 7/6/2019 at 9:37 PM, frienduff thaylorde said:

We need to flee any kind of man made seeker friendly approach and reasoning through science or etc

 

On 7/6/2019 at 9:37 PM, frienduff thaylorde said:

We got men trying to debate on how we can win athiests or buddits , or muslims or whoever ,  And they claim we have to use science

My friend, can you not see that you are criticising another part of the Body?  Your part in the Body is perhaps in praise and rejoicing.  Thomas T, myself and others part is in apologetics.  Your way will certainly not reach everyone, and neither will our way.  But both ways are needed today.  If you don't believe so, and if you are right, then what of the many who have come to the Lord after dealing with scientific objections?

Christians need to realise there is an information war in the world today. Satan is not only using media but using science in deceptive ways to blind and confuse millions.  If you can't fight this war, then don't.  But let's not criticise those who do. 

I'm not suggesting we should use science as the foundation for our faith in Yahweh.  Definitely not.  Rather, that we should never shy away from being challenged on such matters.  Because when you know the truth, you can rest assured that the answers (and science) will always be in your favour.  So why not study it even as a hobby?

Love & Shalom

[thomas t]

HI Tzeph,

3 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Rather, that we should never shy away from being challenged on such matters. 

Amen, so often we agree.

Jesus never shied away from anything.

---

Hi Appy,

rest assured you are free to post whenever, wherever and whatever you want.

8 hours ago, appy said:

There are people that say “I just can't believe in a God who will judge people, then send them to hell”. Ever hear that line?

yes, I've heard people saying so. For some, it's hard to listen to, but that's what you get.

Yeah, God has a right to ask why nobody is giving thanks to him for the creation, in my opinion.

My point was, that you couldn't back up your phrase that atheists purportedly don't want to change. That doesn't mean that I despise everything you've said. Just to the contrary!

I'm not saying that atheists do want to change, either.

I'm just saying you didn't back anything up in this regard. Even the verses in your last post didn't say anything about atheists purportedly not wanting to change. The verse saying something about suppressing the truth, doesn't mean people don't want to change. When I drop a glass a day for being clumsy... that doesn't mean I don't want to change.

This one, for example..

8 hours ago, appy said:

Unbelievers of all walks of life; think they are basically good

you didn't back this up either. No scripture provided to back this up. Just presumption.

Don't take it personal, please, just a point on the subject level,

Thomas

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by thomas t
clarity

[simplejeff]

54 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Jesus never shied away from anything.

There are things He would not talk about.    Look it up in the New Testament,  what He would not answer,

and what is written to all believers as inappropriate conversation for believers.

Also,  He never spoke from the flesh, but from the Father,  in Spirit and in Truth.

As for science,  it stands condemned with all the world society - pernicious, death dealing,  because it supports what is false,  and leads to worshiping the creature instead of the Creator, as written in HIS WORD.

Whatever is born of the flesh, is flesh,  and PROFITS NOTHING.  THere is no exception.

[thomas t]

Hi Jeff,

do you use a computer?

16 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Whatever is born of the flesh [like science], is flesh,  and PROFITS NOTHING.  THere is no exception.

maybe the Amish are the congregation for you...

I like computers.

And when I had a problem with my thumb I was hospitalized. Then a group of scientists came and fixed my thumb. Now I can play the piano again - using all my 10 fingers. That's nice.

Did you ever go to a hospital? This is science...

16 hours ago, simplejeff said:

There are things He would not talk about.

Did you ever outreach to non-believers?

Just imagine a conversation:

Unbeliever: "Scientists have shown that the earth is in fact 4.6 million years old. This doesn't support the Genesis report! Thus Genesis is wrong"

Jeff: "I don't talk with you about these fleshly matters!"

This is shying away?

16 hours ago, simplejeff said:

[...] in the New Testament,  what He would not answer,

and what is written to all believers as inappropriate conversation for believers.

Science is not included in that list. Feel free to show otherwise using the exact scripture, please.

Regards,

Thomas

Edited July 9, 2019 by thomas t
shortened the quote

[simplejeff]

On 7/8/2019 at 9:12 AM, thomas t said:

This one, for example..

On 7/8/2019 at 12:38 AM, appy said:

Unbelievers of all walks of life; think they are basically good

you didn't back this up either. No scripture provided to back this up. Just presumption.

Don't take it personal, please, just a point on the subject level,

Suppose for a moment, or longer if you wish, that an unbeliever thought they are not basically good.

What then ?   < shrugs >  So what ?   They are still an unbeliever.

A lot of people in church congregations think they are basically good,   but they aren't (after testing shows the truth).

Thus Jesus tells them,  on JUDGMENT DAY (when it is far far too late to repent) "bye bye" .......

[simplejeff]

13 hours ago, thomas t said:

Unbeliever: "Scientists have shown that the earth is in fact 4.6 million years old. This doesn't support the Genesis report! Thus Genesis is wrong"

Yahuweh:  Genesis is truth.

Yahushua to unbeliever: (on judgment day) :  "bye bye"

[thomas t]

Hi Jeff,

16 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Suppose for a moment, or longer if you wish, that an unbeliever thought they are not basically good.

What then ?   < shrugs >  So what ?

then there has been another lie about unbelievers here on Worthy.

Every lie makes it more difficult to witness.

However, George has explained that the No. 1 purpose of this board is... reaching out to non-believing people. That's a great idea! Let's stay with the truth.

 

Regards,

Thomas