Am I wasting my time, I think everyone needs to study the bible more and be less concerned about work and money, you don't need to work full time to serve God, and you don't have to give a lot to charity or am I misunderstanding.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Nobody admires Paul more than I do, but he was mistaken when he thought he knew better than God and refused to take up offerings.Paul did not want to do it because it might offend some or suspect his motives.Some might think he was only in it for the money.It sure sounds noble, but did he really believe that God had not thought about that stuff? Of course God knew the negative aspects people ascribe to preachers that take up an offering.Did Paul realize he was trying to “ one-up” God? It’s like he was told to do something by God but responded with a “ now,now, God we can’t really do that, there could be bad repercussions that you did not think of..”

Believers were Commanded to “ share materially with those that deliver the Gospel”. Of course God knew some would not want to hear that.Paul was correct in his concerns. God apparently did not care.Perhaps He wanted to weed out the good soil from the bad soil.If you have the Holy Spirit, God is going to make a giver out of you.Those that preach the True Gospel are going to reap big rewards.God has given the average Joe a way to share in those rewards.If we share materially with the man who gives us Spiritual Food, we will share in his reward in Heaven forever.Did Paul’s “ superior” plan knock many out of sharing Paul’s reward?

Because Paul chose to work, I wonder how many people missed the chance to hear him preach?How many sets of ears, per tent, were denied the chance to hear the best Gospel preacher of all time?How many lost Heavenly rewards because Paul did not follow God’s orders to the letter.?

Please do not misunderstand my intentions here. In my mind, Paul was the greatest man whoever lived— no contest ( Jesus was God/Man). However Paul was just a man.So was Moses . Moses made the same mistake that Paul did.God told HIM to speak to Pharoah.Well, Moses insisted on letting Aaron do the talking, God relented, and Aaron was a thorn in the side of Moses until his dying day.God wanted to rule Israel. The people begged for a King.God relented again and most of the Kings turned out to be rotten.

Please understand ....I am not trying to knock Moses and I am not trying to knock Paul.Rather, I am praising God. The lesson to be learned here is that God ALWAYS knows what is best. We should not argue or debate or think we got a better idea.We need to just shut up and do what He says. NO exceptions.In the end it is always for our own good.

Abraham thought he would help God out by having a relationship with Hagar. Thanks to Abraham ,who did not do exactly what God told him to do, we got Ishmael, whose descendants have been the nemesis of Israel for centuries.Once again.....may God give us the wisdom to shut up and do exactly what He says to do .

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Good point about the Pilgrims of yesteryear.....the equivalent today is to support Israel...( “ I will bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you)..May God help us if we fail to support them.Our relationship may go up and down , but so far,  we have always been with them when the chips are down.There will be a time when the entire World will be against Israel and that will include the United States. Odds are we will all be long gone when this happens.Good.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Blood Bought 1953

[discipler777]

10 hours ago, john1 said:

23 hours ago, discipler777 said:

No, everyone should not be less concerned about work and money.

Luke chapter 10

³⁸ As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. ³⁹ She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. ⁴⁰ But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”

⁴¹ “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, ⁴² but few things are needed—or indeed only one.^[f] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

Quote

No, everyone should not be less concerned about work and money.

Will a Church with only full-time pastors, missionaries, prophets and no lay members working full-time outside the Church be able to finance itself.? 

.

1CORINTHIANS.12 & 13 (NKJV) = 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

The Greatest Gift

13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing

[Michael37]

10 hours ago, john1 said:

As a farmer you don't have to plant until you crop comes up, and you don't have to try to be rich.

 

Am I wasting my time, I think everyone needs to study the bible more and be less concerned about work and money, you don't need to work full time to serve God, and you don't have to give a lot to charity or am I misunderstanding.

I count 46 words in this thread title. Reminds me of this verse from Proverbs

Pro 14:23
(23)  In hard work there is always profit, but too much chattering leads to poverty.
 

As a gardener I can tell you that the work of producing a crop involves a bit of planning, preparation, patience and perseverance. Paul alludes to this in these verses 

1Co 3:6-9
(6)  I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept everything growing.
(7)  So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is significant, but God, who keeps everything growing, is the one who matters.
(8)  The one who plants and the one who waters have the same goal, and each will receive a reward for his own action.
(9)  For we are God's co-workers. You are God's farmland and God's building.
 

[R. Hartono]

Everybody has their own role. Paul was also working while ministrying.

[George]

4 minutes ago, Vince said:

When you say that blessings will come if you do something for God or else you are cursed that puts a burden on Christians that God never put on us. Because when faithful Christians go through trials they will blame their faith and that in my opinion is harmful and non Biblical.

Obviously it's written to the nation of Israel, but I was refuting a point that God doesn't want his people to be prosperous.. It's the same principle in life.

[Heleadethme]

9 hours ago, George said:

Deu 28:1  And it will be, if you shall listen carefully to the voice of Jehovah your God, to observe and to do all His commandments which I command you today, Jehovah your God will set you on high above all nations of the earth. 
Deu 28:2  And all these blessings shall come on you and overtake you, if you will listen to the voice of Jehovah your God. 
Deu 28:3  You shall be blessed in the city, and be blessed in the field. 
Deu 28:4  The fruit of your body shall be blessed, and the fruit of your ground, and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your cows, and the flocks of your sheep. 
Deu 28:5  Your basket and your store shall be blessed. 
Deu 28:6  You shall be blessed when you come in, and blessed when you go out. 
Deu 28:7  Jehovah shall cause your enemies that rise up against you to be stricken before your face. They shall come out against you one way, and flee before you seven ways. ... God wants you to be blessed!

 

Notice that I said ... if you seek God ... the blessings follow.  This is Scriptural.

Mat 6:31  Therefore do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, With what shall we be clothed? 
Mat 6:32  For the nations seek after all these things. For your heavenly Father knows that you have need of all these things. 
Mat 6:33  But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you.

What things?  Material blessings!

So why are we blessed with material blessings?  What is wealth for?

Deu 8:17  and so that you might not say in your heart, My power and the might of my hand has gotten me this wealth. 
Deu 8:18  But you shall remember Jehovah your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, so that He may confirm His covenant which He has sworn to your fathers, as it is today.

Wealth is used by God to establish the covenant.

Does God need your money?  Nope.  Neither does any ministry!  God owns EVERYTHING ALREADY!  It's already HIS! 

So why does God want his servants to give?  The reality is that generosity and giving are dealing with 2 main issues in the human heart.  First, it's dealing with the issue of selfishness -- and the 2nd issue is that it's dealing with greed.  So when you have a generous heart -- you're a giver and working out of your lives -- selfishness and greed!  What drives me up a wall -- is prosperity teachings that work AGAINST God's plan.  If you think about it -- you hear -- if you sow a seed, you'll be blessed 10 fold, 20-fold,100-fold!  GIVE to GET mentality -- is working against God's plan!  God is working OUT of your life -- greed and selfishness -- and prosperity teachers are WORKING BACK IN MORE greed and MORE selfishness in how they present giving!  It's so un-biblical!  When the Scriptures say -- God loves a cheerful giver -- it's literally says -- an hilarious giver!  As Jesus said, don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing!  That's giving from the heart -- and those are the types of offerings God accepts and blesses.

Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness ... and all of these things ... ARE ADDED UNTO YOU! 

Amen....seeking first His kingdom and righteousness....and our needs are supplied/added to us.  But the material blessings of the OT were a type and shadow of the spiritual riches we now have in Christ.  We are not to chase after earthly things like the pagans do, what shall we eat, what shall we wear....we are worth more than many sparrows and God will feed and clothe us just as He looks after the sparrows.   When we have a need we apply to the Lord who is able to richly supply our need according to His riches in glory.  Jesus said that we are not to store up for ourselves treasures on earth......and we find that on the contrary, it will COST us everything to follow Christ, in order to buy the pearl of great price over our lifetime.  Material wealth is deceitful, just as the word says...it causes souls to trust in it instead of in the Lord.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Heleadethme

[discipler777]

2 hours ago, Vince said:

10 hours ago, George said:

19 hours ago, Vince said:

I am not aware that God ever said he wants to prosper and succeed in anything we do.  Also, Cannot God create a crop where no one planted a seed?

Deu 28:1  And it will be, if you shall listen carefully to the voice of Jehovah your God, to observe and to do all His commandments which I command you today, Jehovah your God will set you on high above all nations of the earth. 
Deu 28:2  And all these blessings shall come on you and overtake you, if you will listen to the voice of Jehovah your God. 
Deu 28:3  You shall be blessed in the city, and be blessed in the field. 
Deu 28:4  The fruit of your body shall be blessed, and the fruit of your ground, and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your cows, and the flocks of your sheep. 
Deu 28:5  Your basket and your store shall be blessed. 
Deu 28:6  You shall be blessed when you come in, and blessed when you go out. 
Deu 28:7  Jehovah shall cause your enemies that rise up against you to be stricken before your face. They shall come out against you one way, and flee before you seven ways. ... God wants you to be blessed!

So Deu 28 starts with the word "And", it is a continuation of what is said in chapter 27.  If you go back to chapter 27:9 here is what it says:

Then Moses and the Levitical priests said to all Israel, “Keep silence and hear, O Israel: this day you have become the people of the Lord your God.  You shall therefore obey the voice of the Lord your God, keeping his commandments and his statutes, which I command you today.” ~ ESV

God is talking to the nation of Israel at this particular time.  These are not promises to us.  Also, this is what it says in 27:26 after it lists a bunch of command that they need to keep:

‘Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.

So if you believe that God will bless us if we follow His commands then you also need to tell people that He will curse you if you do not.  Do you believe this?

Jesus promises trouble in this world:

"I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”.” ~ Jn 16:33 ESV

Other scripture for all followers:

"Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, ~ James 1:2 ~ ESV

"Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. ~ 1 Pet 4:12 ESV

"And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. ~ 1 Pet 5:10  ESV

When you say that blessings will come if you do something for God or else you are cursed that puts a burden on Christians that God never put on us. Because when faithful Christians go through trials they will blame their faith and that in my opinion is harmful and non Biblical.

.

ACTS.5:40-42 & 7:57-60 & 8:1  (NKJV) = 40 And they agreed with him, and when they had called for the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41 So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name. 42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.

.

7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

8:1 At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

.

Scripture needs to be read in context.

The New Testament Scripture that you quoted were referring to the persecution and tribulations that had been prophesied by Jesus Christ to His chosen apostles and disciples, eg MATTHEW.10:16-42 & 24:9-14, cf ACTS.5-8. Did Jesus Christ prophesy persecution and tribulations for the Christians of today or to you and me.? During normal times, the blessings of God will still flow to only those who keep His Law/Word/commandments or do good, whether Jews or Greeks(ROMANS.2), eg .......

.

GALATIANS.5:22-26 (NKJV) = 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, discipler777 said:

.

ACTS.5:40-42 & 7:57-60 & 8:1  (NKJV) = 40 And they agreed with him, and when they had called for the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41 So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name. 42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.

.

7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

8:1 At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

.

Scripture needs to be read in context.

The New Testament Scripture that you quoted were referring to the persecution and tribulations that had been prophesied by Jesus Christ to His chosen apostles and disciples, eg MATTHEW.10:16-42 & 24:9-14, cf ACTS.5-8. Did Jesus Christ prophesy persecution and tribulations for the Christians of today or to you and me.? During normal times, the blessings of God will still flow to only those who keep His Law/Word/commandments or do good, whether Jews or Greeks(ROMANS.2), eg .......

.

GALATIANS.5:22-26 (NKJV) = 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

What normal times though?  Followers of Christ get persecuted by the devil through other means when governments and religious authorities aren't persecuting.  Bible says if we are without chastisements we are illegitimate and not sons.  Times of material prosperity were always the times when Israel of old forgot God, and it's the same for Christendom today as it was for our ensample back then.  Better the little that the righteous have, than to dwell in the tents of the wicked.....tents of the wicked is the world.....we are just passing through this world reaching for a better life in eternity, rather than trying to hammer our stakes (tent pegs) down in this world and "having our best life now" like some treacherously preach.  If we also suffer with Jesus we will reign with Him.....if there is never any suffering and chastisements in a believer's life, that is cause to wonder why because it isn't normal for a born again believer if they are following Jesus and carrying the cross of "not my will but Thy will be done."

[discipler777]

11 hours ago, Vince said:

These verses indicate that all Christians will be persecuted.

.

History in fact says otherwise, eg White US Christians enslaved and persecuted the Blacks from the 17th to 19th century, European Christians colonized and persecuted many Third World people from the 15th to 20th century, etc.

Paul and Peter suffered horrible persecution and martyrdom as prophesied by Jesus Christ. So, their writings might have been a bit slanted or have a persecution-complex.

Have all Christians recently been beaten, stoned/lynched by mobs, jailed or executed, especially those in the West.? Have you.?