Who is the Whore of babylon

[Diaste]

On 12/20/2018 at 3:11 PM, SelahSong said:

 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

.....

Selah

And if we knew which city this is the mystery would be solved. 

What city reigns over the kings of the earth?

I'm thinking this city is coming. 

[Mystic_Pizza]

Wow.

There is a lot of dissension going on in this forum, lol. I won't lie, I felt pretty lost just trying to wade my way through all of the ideas/thoughts/etc. on here, and I am, and have always been, a voracious reader with pretty decent reading comprehension. But that 'zoom!' sound you're hearing are all of these posts as they fly over my head, lol.

I'm sure everyone has good intentions in what they are saying on here, myself included- but I just find it hard to believe that God would want things to be so...convoluted that they would be almost impossible to follow, you know? There has to be a way for things to be more easily understood-In Daniel when the angel is telling him to seal up the book until the end times when 'knowledge will be greatly increased', etc.? I don't think it was meant to be so..hard to understand and confusing. That's not to say every post on here is like that, but a whole lot of them are-

Maybe I'm alone in what I think insofar as the forum goes, and maybe I truly am the 'village idiot', who knows- lol.

[Mystic_Pizza]

I forgot to add this in my other post, I had it copied and all ready to go then I got on the phone and...you know how that goes, haha-

1 Corinthians 13

13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. ² If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. ³ If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

⁸ Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. ⁹ For we know in part and we prophesy in part, ¹⁰ but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. ¹¹ When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. ¹² For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

¹³ And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

[Michael37]

33 minutes ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

Wow.

There is a lot of dissension going on in this forum, lol. I won't lie, I felt pretty lost just trying to wade my way through all of the ideas/thoughts/etc. on here, and I am, and have always been, a voracious reader with pretty decent reading comprehension. But that 'zoom!' sound you're hearing are all of these posts as they fly over my head, lol.

I'm sure everyone has good intentions in what they are saying on here, myself included- but I just find it hard to believe that God would want things to be so...convoluted that they would be almost impossible to follow, you know? There has to be a way for things to be more easily understood-In Daniel when the angel is telling him to seal up the book until the end times when 'knowledge will be greatly increased', etc.? I don't think it was meant to be so..hard to understand and confusing. That's not to say every post on here is like that, but a whole lot of them are-

Maybe I'm alone in what I think insofar as the forum goes, and maybe I truly am the 'village idiot', who knows- lol.

Hi Mystic_Pizza, Thanks for your post. No, you are not the village idiot. Far from it with your astute observations. Certain topics tend to attract a buzz of "experts", often with "direct revelation" from God, who obssess over interpretations and bind themselves to repeatedly express dogmatic opinions. They run their course until they lose impetus or are closed by the administration, so no need to be unduly concerned unless you do have to report a breach of Terms of Service, which we are all encouraged to do. I'm confident there is a sufficient supply of threads on site with which we can edify one another in love.

Blessings...

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Royff said:

Maybe you didn't fet my last post because I placed it in the worng place so here it is again:

I though it was important to start out right, then why did you try to explain it in the start in 5 words or less, now you want to talk about everything but the start. When God told John to publish what he saw how long was it before the persecution and murder of the saints began, was it two thousand year into the future or was it shortly after. and why would God warn Christian in the 20th century and not the saints who were about to be beheaded very shortly. I hope you don't think you explain anything with that sorry attempt and run off to something else. 

Please explain God how cared nothing about warning his servants who was about to die to prove faithful to the end and they would receive the crown of life. is that offer only to those Christians living now, it would seem so by your reckoning. You can't just leave that hanging out there like that as if God was merciless to those servants in Rome.  And for some reason care more about this generation then those who gave their lives for the kingdom when the beast got this generation running.

Was that tribulation in Rome?

This all started around 95 AD when John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day." There was already heavy persecution going on and had been. I might as well add that there always will be as long as the church age continues. The world hated Jesus and they hate all that are His.  

There is the church age, but there is also a 7 year period of judgment coming called the 70th week of Daniel - which is a time for HIS people, Israel. The church is not needed on earth at that time and will change addresses to heaven before the 70th week begins.  God loves His people Israel, and had left them many warnings for their time of judgment. 

There are three groups of people that God speaks to in the end times: Israel, the Gentiles and the church.  Many people take scripture pointed to Israel and try to make it for the church - so end up in error. Some may well take scripture pointed to the church and imagine it is for Israel.  The church  (Those that are taken as the Bride of Christ) will not be here for the 70th week, so any scriptures about those 7 years will mostly be directed at Israel, or the tiny remnant of the church that is left behind. 

Make no mistake: God cares deeply for martyrs and they will certainly reap special rewards.  However, there is only ONE rapture that will end the church age. God never planned on a rapture to prevent a martyr. 

Afterthought: The persecutions throughout the church age has not be by God's wrath. He is NOT angry with His church. It is SATAN who has caused all the persecution. But the 70th week will be God's wrath - and He has no desire to keep His children here during His wrath.

Edited January 3, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

Wow.

There is a lot of dissension going on in this forum, lol. I won't lie, I felt pretty lost just trying to wade my way through all of the ideas/thoughts/etc. on here, and I am, and have always been, a voracious reader with pretty decent reading comprehension. But that 'zoom!' sound you're hearing are all of these posts as they fly over my head, lol.

I'm sure everyone has good intentions in what they are saying on here, myself included- but I just find it hard to believe that God would want things to be so...convoluted that they would be almost impossible to follow, you know? There has to be a way for things to be more easily understood-In Daniel when the angel is telling him to seal up the book until the end times when 'knowledge will be greatly increased', etc.? I don't think it was meant to be so..hard to understand and confusing. That's not to say every post on here is like that, but a whole lot of them are-

Maybe I'm alone in what I think insofar as the forum goes, and maybe I truly am the 'village idiot', who knows- lol.

Just stick close to what is written. Use common sense. If a verse makes sense in a literal sense, don't look for any other sense; take it literally.  I learned something from an older bible college professor: God is a self revealing God and if He had not revealed anything, we would know NOTHING about Him. But over time He has revealed more and more, and later revelations are much clearer and easier to understand. Therefore common sense dictates that to form doctrine, we find the latest revelation on a subject, and / or the most complete, and form our doctrine there - filling in missing pieces from the minor scriptures. Many Old Testament verses are like a telescopic view, where we see only the highlights. New Testament scriptures on the same subject may be a microscopic view.  For example, Daniel covered the 70th week in ONE VERSE in chapter 9, but John wrote 9 chapters of Revelation on the 70th week.

Then one must learn to look to WHOM a scripture is pointed. In the end times there is the church, Israel, and the nations or the Gentiles. If one takes a scripture pointed to Israel and says it is for the church, then confusion reigns. God back and look in Dan. 9. He told us the 70th week is for HIS people: Israel. Why then do people try to take verses about the 70th week and make them for the church? It just makes more confusion.  

Finally, it is good to read over some end time passage maybe a hundred times, NOT trying to understand it, just depositing it in your spirit. Then THINK about it during the day. Sleep on it at night. It will not be long before God will begin revealing HIS INTENT in that passage. He is always faithful. 

If someone is ignorant of these things, the end times can look very very difficult. Always remember, Revelation is a revealing, not a hiding.  The simplest idea of what a verse is saying is probably the best idea.  I would say the  "Id_o_t" is one who is so sure they are right, they are no longer open to learning. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

And if we knew which city this is the mystery would be solved. 

What city reigns over the kings of the earth?

I'm thinking this city is coming. 

There is NO NEED to wonder! We can be SURE the Beast and False prophet will reside in JERUSALEM for most of the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week. It will be from Jerusalem that the greatest deception every put upon the human race will come from. It will deceive the entire world. No other city can come close.

[nobleseed]

who said anything abput 2000 years, the time of conquest started in the 17th century(read a history book) and the whore cant be jerusalem because its beside the sea and jerusalem is restored before that by the 2 witnesses 

[iamlamad]

8 minutes ago, noblenut said:

who said anything abput 2000 years, the time of conquest started in the 17th century(read a history book) and the whore cant be jerusalem because its beside the sea and jerusalem is restored before that by the 2 witnesses 

Everything you said is wrong, not according to scriptures. There have always been conquests: one people group fighting another.

[iamlamad]

17 minutes ago, Royff said:

You are right in that there will always be persecution in this world which means that that persecution is happening now. You dropped this paragraph but stop short of explaining it:

“There is the church age, but there is also a 7 year period of judgment coming called the 70th week of Daniel - which is a time for HIS people, Israel. The church is not needed on earth at that time and will change addresses to heaven before the 70th week begins.  God loves His people Israel, and had left them many warnings for their time of judgment.

Show me in scripture where it states that the church is no longer needed on earth, because as I remember it, the Lord said He will never leave himself without a witness in this earth. Even down to the two prophets, aren’t they part of the church? Well they must be needed or the Lord would remove them. Show me in scripture where it states that the church changes address to heaven, don’t just drop that herte, explain it.

Now you  drop this in;

“There are three groups of people that God speaks to in the end times: Israel, the Gentiles and the church.  Many people take scripture pointed to Israel and try to make it for the church - so end up in error. Some may well take scripture pointed to the church and imagine it is for Israel.  The church (Those that are taken as the Bride of Christ) will not be here for the 70th week, so any scriptures about those 7 years will mostly be directed at Israel, or the tiny remnant of the church that is left behind.”

Now this thing about Israel, the Gentiles and the church, how does this help in explaining the pre tribulation rapture. You claim error here but doesn’t explain what the error is and how it confuses the teaching of the rapture. I’m not sure, I’ll have to go back and check it out, but i believe that 70 week has come and pass without bringing the result hoped for. Don’t quote me on that because I have to check it out again. But I think they had to do some reworking of that 70 weeks of Daniel because that date has come and gone.

Again, you jump to this:

“Make no mistake: God cares deeply for martyrs and they will certainly reap special rewards.  However, there is only ONE rapture that will end the church age. God never planned on a rapture to prevent a martyr.”

You talk here as if you has explain the teaching of the rapture when all you did was paste scripture here.

In none of this have you explain anything, when did the 70 weeks began and when does it end and how does it connect to the rapture? Let's start with the scripture where it states that the church is no longer needed in the earth. You may be right but, if you don’t take the time to explain its just words on a computer screen that explains nothing.

So, let get some understand on the no longer needed in the world, bring that scripture up and let's start with taking a close look at that verse of scripture.

Where do I find the scripture verse that states that the saints are no longer needed in the world; you maybe right but show me.

Right after the rapture God gets 144,000 Jewish witnesses. They go to heaven around the midpoint of the week and then the Two witnesses show up, so Go will always have witnesses. No, the two prophets are from the Old Covenant, which is what the 70th week is, the final week to finish out the Old Covenant. They are probably Elijah and Enoch -  the two men that never died. Surely you must know 1 thes. 4 & 5, Paul's classic rapture verses. Then put in John 14 with it. Jesus went to heaven to prepare homes for us. At the right time, He will come and get us and take us to those homes while we wait out the 70th week and His wrath.

You need an example: OK, take the gathering written in Matthew 24. Many people INSIST that is Paul's rapture. The truth is, the entire discourse is pointed to Israel. The gathering gathers from heaven, not earth. Paul's rapture gathers from earth. It is about God gathering all of Israel back to the land of Israel. It comes AFTER the days of great tribulation, but Paul's rapture will come before the entire 70th week. 

The 70th week will be the 7 trumpet judgments in the first half, and the vials in the second half. It is FUTURE. 

Maybe you don't understand anything about the rapture. Please - in your next post - tell us what you understand about the end times. You see, most people on this thread has known most of the end times scriptures for a long time and have developed their doctrines  - whether right or wrong, and won't budge for anything - because they are sure they are right. Therefore I assumed you were well versed in end times scriptures. I am sorry.

The 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it.  Where is Paul's rapture in Revelation? John did not see the rapture so did not write it - but He saw the raptured church in heaven in chapter 7. The church has been between the 5th and 6th seals since the first century. The 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age. the 6th seal begins God's wrath. It CANNOT be opened until the church is safely in heaven.

There is no scripture that states the church will no longer be needed. But there Is a scripture (more than one) that tells us God will NOT leave us here for the time of His wrath. Do a search on wrath in the New Testament and read those scriptures. What we DO read is that the 70th week is for DANIEL's people - the Jews and the other tribes. You read that in DAniel chapter 9. If the 70th week is for them, it is NOT for us.