Wayne222 Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 477 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,560 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, Sower said: Is Jesus the lord first or the savior first? Jesus is Lord over all, lost and saved. In the beginning, and now. He is now and has always has been sovereign. Every knee will bow. I do not know how I can try to make Jesus something He already is, over all creation. I believe I understand what you mean, though. As a believer, born again, I an grafted into the vine, as Willa said. A branch, abiding in Christ. The more empty of self I am, the more fruit I bear. I live, but not I, but Christ, in me. He is my Lord. And I have a free will. I choose to allow or not, Him to work through me. The only way to bear fruit. This glorifies the Father. When I was saved, I knew nothing about making Jesus Lord. Or sovereignty. Or the True vine, etc. Just that I was a sinner, needing a Savior, hearing the gospel, believing. As a babe, I received the milk. As an adult, I realized/learned Jesus was, is, and will always be, LORD. To everybody. He reigns. The King of kings. Hi Sower yes Jesus is lord over all things. What I meant was do you follow him first as the lord or get to know him as savior. Seems you did get know him as savior. We Christians love Jesus as lord. No one else but Jesus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heybro Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 19 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,360 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2019 In my thinking and understanding, Jesus is Saviour 1st, as we come to saving faith in Him. As the Holy Spirit reveals more of Who Jesus is to us, and our desire is to Know Him more and more in our lives, we agree with John the Baptist when he said to his disciples, "He must increase, I Must Decrease." At that point, He(Jesus) becomes Lord of our lives. We only want to do and be who He wants us to be, not content to be a follower, but a disciple. So then when I talk to others, I say He is my Saviour and Lord. I hope this answers your original question, and as always, God bless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 477 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,560 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Heybro said: In my thinking and understanding, Jesus is Saviour 1st, as we come to saving faith in Him. As the Holy Spirit reveals more of Who Jesus is to us, and our desire is to Know Him more and more in our lives, we agree with John the Baptist when he said to his disciples, "He must increase, I Must Decrease." At that point, He(Jesus) becomes Lord of our lives. We only want to do and be who He wants us to be, not content to be a follower, but a disciple. So then when I talk to others, I say He is my Saviour and Lord. I hope this answers your original question, and as always, God bless. Very true. Some say he must be follow as lord first. There faith will then depend on there obedience. God Blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 243 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,973 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,889 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 7:07 PM, Wayne222 said: I heard a good sermon about this. Do we have to make Jesus lord of our life first. I would say no. First and for most we need to be born again. We are not saved by works of righteousness that we have done. If we have to first repent of disobedience to be right with God then we are relying on our works. So we need Jesus as our saviour to be forgI've of our sins. We have to trust in Jesus and believe he is the son of God. When we just trust in Jesus then we become born again. We as new born creation will obey him. Like it says in 1 john. He who is born again does not commit sin. That is as a way of life. You can sin but you surly don't want to continue in sin. Your question of which comes first, Saviour or Lord, moves me to address the aspect of how the Lordship of Christ manifests in the individual believer so that the Headship of Christ can manifest in the community of believers, that corporate expression otherwise known as the "body of Christ". Submitting to the Headship of Christ is understandably difficult for anyone who doesn't submit to the Lordship of Christ. Generally in Scripture the apellation "Lord" comes before that of "Saviour". Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. Isaiah 60:16 You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles, And milk the breast of kings; You shall know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob. 2Peter 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 2Peter 3:2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 2Peter 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 477 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,560 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Michael37 said: Your question of which comes first, Saviour or Lord, moves me to address the aspect of how the Lordship of Christ manifests in the individual believer so that the Headship of Christ can manifest in the community of believers, that corporate expression otherwise known as the "body of Christ". Submitting to the Headship of Christ is understandably difficult for anyone who doesn't submit to the Lordship of Christ. Generally in Scripture the apellation "Lord" comes before that of "Saviour". Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. Isaiah 60:16 You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles, And milk the breast of kings; You shall know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob. 2Peter 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 2Peter 3:2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 2Peter 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. You cannot submit to the lordship unless you are born of God and saved by the savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 243 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,973 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,889 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Wayne222 said: You cannot submit to the lordship unless you are born of God and saved by the savior. Yeah, - or can you be saved if you don't submit to the Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heybro Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 19 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,360 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2019 Wayne, I hope that you're understanding what I posted that firstly, Jesus becomes Saviour 1st, then as you continue in your faith in Jesus and desire to follow Him all the days of your life, then He becomes Lord as you surrender to His Will for your life, as always, I hope this helps, God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.39 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2019 To be honest, I suspect Lordship is the issue in view with water baptism. When we're born again we have experienced Him as saviour. I know some in the Body believe water baptism is necessary for salvation but I personally do not believe that is so. What makes water baptism mandatory (in my understanding) is the fact that Jesus commanded it. It's a matter of obedience and when we obey, we are in a very real sense being confronted with, and accepting His Lordship. My "Lord"is one who has the right to command me and expect my obedience. I do think you can receive Him as saviour and buck when it comes to His Lordship. I've done it from time to time in my life. In one sense we're bucking His Lordship every time we sin so I don't see it as a one and done thing. I have to periodically confess, repent and recommit to His Lordship if I choose to let sin in my life again. Some christians don't seem to ever realize the necessity of submitting to His Lordship and frankly I really wasn't all that aware of Jesus as Lord for many years after I was born again. I was born again at 8 yrs old in a mainline Baptist environment (please don't hear me bashing Baptists here...I'm not) and they taught the salvation message with power authority and accuracy....every Sunday :). That left me with the impression I had "arrived" and now I just needed to share my faith and wait for His return. It resulted in years of very little growth, and eventually just pretty much losing sight of spiritual things altogether for years. And I had no clue how to share my faith I really had little detailed Biblical understanding of what had happened to me. But He never left me and I never seriously questioned whether it HAD happened. It was not until I was well into adulthood that I began to realize there was so much more and that salvation was just the entry point to vast opportunities to grow. He identifies Himself by many names and I feel comfortable now tracking my growth (in part) by how many of His Names I have EXPERIENCED Him in. Not how many I've studied or know, but by how many He has literally manifested the power of in my life experience. At salvation I met Him as saviour. At baptism I at least acknowledged His right to command and at least superficially experienced Him as Lord. Over the years (I was a soldier) He very literally manifested as the Prince of Peace in circumstances that were anything but peaceful. Powerfully enough that the men around me noticed. Hahaha...they accused me of being fearless I didn't know how to tell them it wasn't fearlessness and it wasn't me. He'd simply assured me I was safer on a battlefield in the middle of a firefight IN His will than I ever could be sittting in my own living room apart from His will. Firefights didn't faze me much after that After taht I KNEW Him as my Prince of Peace...because I had experienced Him in the power of that Name. I can relate other specific events in my life where my power to provide was insufficient and impossibly so. He showed up as my Provider. And so on... It wasn't until I got connected to a charismatic church and received the baptism in the Holy Spirit that I really began to grow much. But, thank God for the baptists :0 Man they KNOW that blood I'd guess that 80% of the American Christians of my generation very likely got born again under the influence of a Baptist ministry And that's worth a lot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Wayne222 said: rWe worship God in his temple. We the body of christ is the temple. It's not a building. It's says our body is the temple of God. We are living stones in that temple. We the body of christ can meet in a building or a home. But the building is never the temple. God dwells in us by the spirit. May I ask what church you go to, and what scripture you church uses to say the body Is the Temple.what about you? Who are you? Where is his Temple? Who did Jesus die for. You will say for the sins of the world which is right. Who is Jesus to you when you are not with your church body.? Is Jesus ever personal in you church? In John 10 " my sheep know my voice and I call them out by Name. Would that mean he knows your name personally? Did he suffer the cross for your sins and not just the whole world? Have you ever prayed to Christ alone? Edited January 27, 2019 by Mike Mclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted January 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,262 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,873 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2019 9 hours ago, Michael37 said: Yeah, - or can you be saved if you don't submit to the Lord? Yes. I can, and do, when I do not submit to His mark/target, and sin. So does everybody that is saved. The more I grow, the more I submit. Abide. Reckon myself dead. Allow Christ to work through me. Not I, but Christ. I started out as a babe, not an adult. (In Christ) Submitting was learned. Thy word have I hid in my heart, that.......................... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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