What is your view of hell?

[other one]

My view of hell will be from far far away...

[Marilyn C]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 9:17 AM, DarrenJClark said:

There are three main views of hell in Evangelicalism.  There is the view that God will punish the wicked in hell forever (I will call this the eternal conscious punishment, or ECP view), there is the view that when God punishes the wicked in hell it will destroy or kill them (I will call this conditional immortality, or CI), and there is the view that God will refine the wicked in hell so as to ensure all are purified and eventually saved (I will call this purgatorial universal reconciliation, or PUR).  This by no means a comprehensive descriptions of these views of hell.

I am a conditionalist. 

I am wondering if people would please identify which view of hell they currently follow and list the single strongest argument for that view.  

I like to talk about how and why people hold to the doctrines they do rather than simply argue with them so I hope I can learn something new about these various views on hell.

Thankyou.

Hi Darren,

I believe that `hell,` is having your own way forever. Sounds good, but think about it. That person will not have a new body so they cannot see, hear, taste, touch, speak etc. They are just their spirit and their mind going on and on and on forever. The person desired that as they refused to acknowledge the creator, or their conscience, or if they were told of Jesus and His great sacrifice.

Our spirits are eternal, on going, and we continue in the state that we leave our bodies.

[A Christian 1985]

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Do Not confuse Hades with 'Hell'

HADES

            Who knoweth the spirit of man, whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast, whether it goeth downward to the earth? (Eccles. 3:21)

            It is obvious, especially when taken in context that the writer here is not speaking prophetically. Indeed, he is speaking cynically, rather than literally. This is the only verse in the whole Bible that could conceivably contradict the assertion that, of the life on earth today, man alone has a spirit. Due to its context, and in light of the meaning of the original language, we cannot credibly consider this verse to be in conflict with what is clearly and consistently shown by the rest of the Bible.

            And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment; (Heb. 9:27)

            and the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it. (Eccles. 12:7)

            At death, man's physical body returns to dust and his spirit "returns to God." But what happens to the human soul after death? Due to man's having a spirit, his soul, unlike those of animals, is immortal. This poses a problem: the souls of the dead must be kept somewhere until their final disposition at the judgment.

            And thou, Capernaum, shalt be exalted unto heaven? Thou shalt go down unto Hades: ... (Matt. 11:23).

            And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:14)

             And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Hades"‑ that is, "the unseen world"; for the translation "Hell" is incorrect‑ "delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works" (Rev. xx.13). Now the sea is commonly supposed to be mentioned as giving up the bodily germs of those who have been drowned or buried in it. But if the meaning goes no further than that, why do we not also hear of the earth giving up the far more numerous dead which lie beneath its sods? Instead, however, of sea being coupled with land, we find it mysteriously connected with Death and the unseen world: that is, it is mentioned in a list of places filled, not with the remains of material forms, but with disembodied spirits.

            This is certainly a fatal objection to a common interpretation: but if the sea be the prison of demons, all difficulties vanish, and in that case we can well understand why it is the first to give up its dead. For every one will be judged in his order, and, therefore, these pre‑adamic beings will have an awful precedence of the prisoners of Death and Hades, whose innumerable cells are, perhaps, filled exclusively with criminals from our present world ‑ excerpt from Earth's Earliest Ages, p. 61.

            Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell (Gehenna)? (Matt. 23‑33)

            The Bible uses two entirely different words concerning disposition of the souls of the dead. Most people fail to distinguish between Hell (GREEK: Gehenna), and Hades (Greek: Hades), considering them to be different words for the same thing. This is far from being the case, and a correct knowledge of this matter is essential to an understanding of several other spiritual matters.

Rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell (Gehenna) of fire. (Matt. 18:9)

            Hell is the burning lake of fire, which, dispensationally speaking, is not yet. The purpose of hell is that of a universal eternal disposal for all of the negative things after they have been righteously judged. Such an eternal disposal is necessary for creatures with a spiritual aspect to their being, and will include the fallen angels, the demons, and unregenerated human beings. Hades, however, is a keeping-place for the souls of dead human beings, some of the demons (originally all of them), and the special category of fallen angels discussed in Appendix VII. That these are two distinctly different things is proven by Revelation 20:14, where this verse states that Hades is cast into the lake of fire (Gehenna).

             Hades has existed since the disembodiment of the demonic race, long before the time of the human race (Hades’ original purpose was the confinement of the disembodied spirits of the demonic race), and will exist until the end of the millennium. To enable us to realize the significance of other biblical, non‑physical matters, let us now learn what we may about Hades. Although Hades most probably cannot be considered a physical place, nonetheless it does have a physical location, which will make several other matters clear.

Yea, his soul draweth near to the pit, and his life to the destroyers. (Job 33:22)

What is the pit, and how does it relate to Hades?

... And thou hast delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol. (Ps. 86:13 NASB)

            Hades has different levels; saints and sinners are not lumped together indiscriminately. The Old Testament believer here met with God's approval, such that at death God did not let his soul be consigned to Sheol but to a better, higher level of Hades. What are the other levels?

 

Sheol and Abaddon are before Jehovah ... (Prov. 15:11).

            And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss.... They have over them as king the angel of the abyss: his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek tongue he hath the name Apollyon. (Rev. 9:1, 11)

            At first glance, Abaddon, like Sheol, appears to be another level of Hades, but Abaddon is the name of the angel of the abyss.

            In other translations "the pit of the abyss" is rendered "the bottomless pit," indicating further the non‑physical characteristics of Hades. But Hades does have a physical location.

            Therefore Sheol hath enlarged its desire, and opened its mouth without measure; their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth among them, descend into it. (Isa. 5:14)

            The wicked shall be turned back unto Sheol, Even all the nations that forget God. (Ps. 9:171

            And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, that are gone down to Sheol with their weapons of war, and have laid their swords under their heads, and their iniquities are upon their bones; for they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living. (Ezek. 32:27)

            Whose graves are set in the uttermost parts of the pit, and her company is round about her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who caused terror in the land of the living. (Ezek. 32:23)

            A careful consideration of these verses discloses that the pit is comprised of two levels, Sheol being the name of the uppermost one. The pit is the part of Hades where the souls of unbelievers are kept, with the better unbelievers kept in Sheol, and the worse ones kept in the lower level.

            For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be renewed unto judgment; (2 Pet. 2:4).

         The word translated incorrectly here as hell is not the Greek word for hell (Gehenna), but is the Greek word Tartarus. Tartarus is the lowest level of Hades and the lower of the two levels that to compromise the pit, Sheol being the upper one of the two. Evil unbelievers are kept in Tartarus, along with the chained fallen angels who sinned further than their peers, as is detailed in Appendix VII. As we shall see in Chapter Five, although some of the demons are still confined to Hades (in the pit and almost certainly Tartarus), most of them escaped their confinement before the time of Adam.

 

            And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but not here he is comforted, and thou art in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us. (Luke 16:22‑26)

 

            Sheol and Tartarus are two distinct levels but, although it is almost certainly the case, there is no specific mention of a gulf or barrier between them. We see here that there is a level containing the souls of the dead that is higher than Sheol, but that there is a great gulf between it and the pit such that it is considered a separate part of Hades from Sheol and Tartarus. Why this is so we will see shortly. Another thing to notice is the torment of the rich man due to the heat. I repeat: Gehenna, the burning lake of fire and brimstone is not yet here. Why then the torment and whence the flame? The people on these levels are evil people- should we expect their keeping to be pleasant? As we have seen in previous verses, the pit is located beneath the abyss. This puts its physical location pretty deep in the earth (one verse‑"in the heart of the earth"), deep enough for the tremendous temperatures at such levels to cause the discomfort and torment spoken of.

            Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city.... And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? ... (1Sam. 28:3, 16).

            Samuel was one of the Old Testament saints, so this verse substantiates that believers are kept in an upper level of Hades, which is located beneath the abyss. What is this upper level, and where is the abyss?

            And he (Jesus) said unto him (one of the two men crucified beside Jesus, who had just repented), Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in Paradise. (Luke 23:43)

 

            The thief on the cross believed on the Lord, so the Lord told him that that same day, at the end of which they would both be dead physically, he would be with the Lord in Paradise. Paradise, then, is the uppermost level of Hades, which contains the believers. Did you ever wonder where the Lord's soul was during the three days between His death and Resurrection?

            And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden. ... (Gen. 2:8‑9).

            I made it fair by the Multitude of its branches, so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied it.... I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to Sheol with them that descend into the pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the nether parts of the earth.... To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised, with them that are slain with the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord Jehovah. (Ezek. 31:9,16,18)

            So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the Garden of Eden the Cherubim, and the flame of a sword, which turned every way, keep the way of the tree of life. (Gen. 3:24)

            It is clear from these (and other verses) that Paradise, the uppermost level of Hades, is as pleasant as the Garden of Eden. At the time of Adam, the Garden of Eden had a physical location on the surface of the earth in Mesopotamia. Due to the fall, man's access to the tree of life in the Garden of Eden was barred by God, as long as a man was physically alive in the fallen, corrupted flesh. After death, however, this restriction no longer applied ("For he that is dead is freed from sin"), so that the souls of believers could be kept in this Paradise, Eden, which has since the Fall been located beneath the abyss with the other two levels of Hades.

            Now, where was Christ during those three days?

            for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt 12:40)

            (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he (Christ) also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? (Eph. 4:9)

            Because Christ also died for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. (1 Pet. 3:18‑19)

            For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6)

            For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol; Neither wilt thou offer thy holy one to see corruption. (Ps. 16:10)

he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. (Acts 2:31)

            whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be held by it. (Acts 2:24)

            or, who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) (Rom. 10:7)

            Christ, while in Hades those three days, not only appeared in Paradise but also went to Sheol to preach the good news of the gospel to the souls of the dead there, that they should believe so that their spirits would be made alive unto them at the judgment.

            knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death no more hath dominion or him. (Rom. 6:91)

            For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and living. (Rom. 14:9)

            and the Living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. (Rev. 1:18)

            By Christ's Resurrection, He achieved the authority (keys) over death and Hades, taking this power away from Satan, who legally had it until then. Thus it is that Satan does not have the key to the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1, but must be given it.

            Sing, 0 ye heavens, for Jehovah hath done it; shout, ye lower parts of the earth ... Jehovah hath redeemed Jacob, and will glorify himself in Israel. (Isa. 44:23)

          But as for me I know that my Redeemer liveth, And at last he will stand up upon the earth: and after my skin, even this body, is destroyed, Then without my flesh shall I see God: (Job 19:25‑26).

            ... and at that time thy people shall be delivered. Every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame, and everlasting contempt. (Dan. 12:2)

 

            Marvel not at this for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. (John 6:28‑29)

            and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many. (Matt. 27:52‑53)

            The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken‑hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the openings of the prison to them that are bound;  (Isa. 61:1)

                Whereforth he saith, when he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now this, He ascended, what is but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? (Eph. 4:8‑9)

            ... To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God. (Rev. 2:71

            I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not; or whether I know not; or whether out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up even to the third heaven. And I know such a man (whether in the body or apart from the body, I know not; God knoweth), how that he was caught up into Paradise ... (2 Cor. 12:2‑4).

For David ascended not into the heavens ... (Acts 2:34)

            According to the original Greek of 2 Corinthians 12:2‑4, Paul was caught up to the third heaven, but he was caught into (not up into) Paradise. Notice also that his being caught up to heaven and his being caught into Paradise are recorded as two separate instances of the same experience. Both these instances occurred at the time of his regenera­tion. That the Paradise where the believers are being kept is not in heaven (then or now) is shown by this being recorded as two separate instances. Otherwise Paul would have stated that he was caught up to Paradise in the third heaven. (The first heaven is the atmosphere of our planet, the second heaven is the space of stars, and the third heaven is the spiritual heaven of God.) That Paradise, the keeping place for believers, is still in the earth is confirmed by Acts 2:34, which tells us that David, even after the   ascension of Christ, had not ascended to heaven. There are two Paradises, therefore: one, the earthly Edenic level of Hades, and the other, a heavenly Paradise of God in the third (spiritual) heaven.

            It is my opinion that the tombs opening, etc., was only a temporary resurrection (a sneak preview, as it were) of the bodies of the saints given as a sign to God's people in Jerusalem to further try to bring them to repentance. The actual physical resurrection of the bodies of the saints, both Old and New Testament, does not occur until right before Christ's return to the earth. The souls of New Testament believers who fall asleep are also kept in Paradise until the Lord sets up His judgment seat.

            By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well‑pleasing unto God: (Heb. 11:5)

            And it came to pass, when Jehovah would take up Elijah by a whirlwind into heaven…(2 Kings 2:1)

            These were some of the exceptions to the rule, who were caught up directly to heaven without seeing death rather than dying and being kept in Hades. We will see why this was so later on in the book (Chapter Nine).

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead. (James 2:26)

And it came to pass, as her soul was departing (for she died)…(Gen. 36:18).

                For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two‑edged word, and piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit . . . (Heb. 4:12)

                ... because man goeth to his everlasting home, and the mourners go about the streets: before the silver cord is snapped asunder . . . (Eccles. 12:5‑6)

                 Is not their tent‑cord plucked up within them? They die, and that without wisdom. (Job 4:21)

                And her spirit returned, and she rose up immediately: and he commanded that something be given her to eat. (Luk 8:55)

                And he stretched upon the child three times, and cried unto Jehovah, and said, O Jehovah my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And Jehovah hearkened unto the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. (1 Kings 17:21‑22)

                … being borne down by his sleep he fell down from the third story, and was taken up dead. And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Make ye no ado; for his life is in him. (Acts 20:9‑10)

            There is a "cord" that connects and binds the soul‑spirit to the physical body of the individual that it belongs to. Ordinarily, at the time of physical death, this cord is severed and the soul‑spirit goes to whichever keeping place is appropriate to the life that that person led in the flesh. However, sometimes this does not immediately occur and the person is able to be brought back to life. This has occurred not only in these biblical instances but also up to the present. There is only one logical reason to explain this: God must so love and desire that these people become His children by believing in Christ that He has given them the most final of chances. A word of warning: direct knowledge in this life of the next is expressly forbidden by God‑ any and all impressions obtained by these people while medically dead are almost certainly deceptive.

 

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[Dennis1209]

On 2/12/2019 at 7:56 PM, DarrenJClark said:

Most traditionalists argue that the lake of fire of Rev 20:10 symbolizes what happens in hell.  It is worth noting that the KJV translated four separate words as hell - Gehenna, Sheol, Tartarus, and hades.  In Rev 20:14-15 it is Hades and Death that are thrown into the fire, not hell per se.    In this passage it is the personification of Death and Hades (the grave or the underworld holding place of the dead) that are being being cast into the lake of fire.  That does not mean the lake of fire cannot be considered hell (the final destiny of the wicked).  That is how most traditionalists I have debated would respond.

It might first be beneficial to identify which is the same place in the Hebrew / Greek languages [i.e. H. Sheol - G. Haides, etc.]. In some places and translations 'Hell' is substituted for both Sheol and Haides [the same place]. I personally think there is different levels of 'Hell' with different degrees of punishment and suffering myself; vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. Based on what that person did in his or her lifetime. Just as there will be greater rewards, crowns, honors and responsibilities for Christian's, based on what they did for Christ, their fruits and their faithfulness. The un-saved will be rewarded justly for their wickedness and deeds while on the earth.

If you remember the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man looked up, both "were" located in the earth at different levels. I say 'were' because Jesus led captivity captive, He took Abraham's bosom side to Heaven with Him when he descended into the earth. The punishment side of Hades [Hell] is still there and expanding. Haides, Sheol or Hell is a temporary holding place, or jail if you will, until the Great White Throne Judgement, when Haides, Sheol, Hell, will be cast into the Lake of Fire [permanent prison].

Luke 16:23 (KJV) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. [emphasis mine - hell, Gr. Haides]

You have the "bottomless pit" [G. Abyssos - or Abyss], the deepest level of Hell in the center of the earth. It's bottomless because there is no down, there's only up. Then there's the final place of imprisonment for all of eternity, the "Lake of Fire" prepared by God. The anti-Christ and False Prophet will be the first to occupy the Lake of Fire followed by Satan and his minions. After sentence and judgment is passed down by the Lord at the Great White Throne Judgment; those in 'Hell' [the temporary holding area], will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. [emphasis added]. 

We're not told where this lake of fire is located but; we're told where these temporary holding areas having a great divide, bars and gates, are located. 

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [emphasis added]

Jonah 2:6 (KJV) I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. [emphasis added].

I'm a traditionalist and don't hold the view as you stated it?

[other one]

Every time I see this subject line show up in the list of things not read I have the same thought.

What is your view of hell?        <>             From very far away.....    LoL

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Hell Is not good or good for you

Hell cannot not give eternal life

Hell will come to an end

No more pain ….No more crying...... no more death

Lake of Fire seem to be the final, everything is dead that goes into it.

New Heaven and New Earth, so where can a natural hell exist ?

 

 

[Coliseum]

On 2/13/2019 at 7:10 AM, other one said:

So to answer your question as to my view of hell.    well my view is it doesn't matter.   It's not part of my future so why should I care.

I would respectfully disagree. Jesus cared---a lot. He spoke about it more than anything else. It is important to recognize, as any Army general recognizes his enemy. We better know who is speaking to us.  Martha, whom Jesus said he loved, said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died." Jesus got angry, not at Martha, but at what she misunderstood. 

²⁵  Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
²⁶  and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11:25-26 (NIV)

But her sister Mary understood, even though her words were identical to Martha's---the very same words. How did Jesus respond:

³³  When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled.
³⁴  "Where have you laid him?" he asked. "Come and see, Lord," they replied.
³⁵  Jesus wept.    John 11:33-35 (NIV)

Two entirely different responses. Jesus definitely cared. Therefore, so should we also.

 

 

[other one]

14 minutes ago, Coliseum said:

I would respectfully disagree. Jesus cared---a lot. He spoke about it more than anything else. It is important to recognize, as any Army general recognizes his enemy. We better know who is speaking to us.  Martha, whom Jesus said he loved, said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died." Jesus got angry, not at Martha, but at what she misunderstood. 

²⁵  Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
²⁶  and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11:25-26 (NIV)

But her sister Mary understood, even though her words were identical to Martha's---the very same words. How did Jesus respond:

³³  When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled.
³⁴  "Where have you laid him?" he asked. "Come and see, Lord," they replied.
³⁵  Jesus wept.    John 11:33-35 (NIV)

Two entirely different responses. Jesus definitely cared. Therefore, so should we also.

 

 

I have met and dealt with the enemy face to face....    and Jesus snatched me out of his hands and we've built a good relationship on a minute by minute bases since that night 40 or so years ago...   I personally have no concern of hell at all.  It doesn't pertain to me in the least because I didn't give myself over to Jesus to stay out of hell...   I gave myself over to him because he's the coolest dude one could ever meet and he's given me a way to spend eternity with him....   I came to Jesus a lot more out of Love than fear....   yes, you can find scripture telling people to fear hell, and fear God, but I really don't think that it is speaking to people who are really born again.   

Did I fear God the night he saved me.....    no he was a helping hand to retrieve me out of the hand of pure evil..   it was the evil that my soul feared and reached out to the saving hand.

I've been promised to never to be involved with the lake of fire so why should I not trust my Lord....    and as for fearing God, he came down here and let a group of people beat him half to death then hang him out on a tree to die....     "For ME"    how can you fear someone who would do that for you...

Do you "not sin" out of the fear of hell......    I do my very best not to sin because I don't want to be an embarrassment to my Lord for I know Satan is always pointing out to him at any failure on my part.....    but it is for my love for him that I try not to ever sin.   And it's not just refraining from doing things that we are told not to do, but just as much not doing the things he has told us to do.....

[Dennis1209]

13 minutes ago, Coliseum said:

I would respectfully disagree. Jesus cared---a lot. He spoke about it more than anything else. It is important to recognize, as any Army general recognizes his enemy. We better know who is speaking to us.  Martha, whom Jesus said he loved, said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died." Jesus got angry, not at Martha, but at what she misunderstood. 

²⁵  Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
²⁶  and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11:25-26 (NIV)

But her sister Mary understood, even though her words were identical to Martha's---the very same words. How did Jesus respond:

³³  When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled.
³⁴  "Where have you laid him?" he asked. "Come and see, Lord," they replied.
³⁵  Jesus wept.    John 11:33-35 (NIV)

Two entirely different responses. Jesus definitely cared. Therefore, so should we also.

 

 

Well said Coliseum, thank you.

[NotAllThere]

I do not know. I've read the Road to Hell, by David Pawson, and I think he is correct, biblically. However, what I really believe I think is sufficient for everyone.  I do not want to go there. Stick to close to Jesus, and there isn't an issue. Same with the issue of Once Save Always Saved. 

The unbelievers have no excuse, and their peril will,somehow, not effect our bliss.