What is your view of hell?

[DarrenJClark]

17 minutes ago, Jostler said:

I deny efforts to intellectually explain away the simple meanings in  clear text.  And I avoid wasting time on  hopeless, pointless tasks whenever I can. 

It is your choice about how you engage with the evidence but your characterization of explaining away simple meaning in clear text turns back onto you.  The present tense participles are clearly and simply in the text of Rev 14:11 as is John's use of Is 34:10.  You are not even bothering to look at the detail so are not even getting to the stage of explaining it away.  You are just ignoring it.  That leaves you with exactly no basis for a rebuttal.    

[Jostler]

Just now, DarrenJClark said:

It is your choice about how you engage with the evidence but your characterization of explaining away simple meaning in clear text turns back onto you.  The present tense participles are clearly and simply in the text of Rev 14:11 as is John's use of Is 34:10.  You are not even bothering to look at the detail so are not even getting to the stage of explaining it away.  You are just ignoring it.  That leaves you with exactly no basis for a rebuttal.    

i have no desire to rebut.  I think He's quite capable of defending His Word

[DarrenJClark]

Just now, Jostler said:

I'm truly astonished at the liberties some feel when it comes to  His Word.  If I'm hearing Him correctly, He's about to make some moves that will re-introduce His own to exactly what it means to "tremble" at His Word.   It's largely a concept that has disappeared from the  consciousness of the western "church"

Who is taking liberties with God's word?  

[Jostler]

7 minutes ago, DarrenJClark said:

Who is taking liberties with God's word?  

anyone who decides the Word is something they have the authority to interpret.  And feels free to use their own imagination and intellect to explain away  it's meaning.

 

Quote

2Pe 1:20

knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

The Word must interpret itself, and not ONE verse in it is in conflict with any other.  It's a lot better to seek Him  for understanding  of perceived contradictions, because the reality is it contains none.

I guess i should include those who selectively choose to believe a verse here, and dismiss a verse there.  We don't get to do that...our task is to learn how what is clearly there FITS....because there isn't a single verse that contradicts another in there either.  All of them matter and not one can be discarded because we don't understand how to place it in proper relationship to all the rest.

Seeing that is a call to study and prayer for understanding, not an invitation to add to it or dismiss it.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Jostler

[DarrenJClark]

Just now, Jostler said:

anyone who decides the Word is something they have the authority to interpret.  And feels free to use their own imagination and intellect to explain away  it's meaning.

Right, and I guess you think your reading and interpretation is the benchmark for how the Bible should be read.

[Jostler]

Just now, DarrenJClark said:

Right, and I guess you think your reading and interpretation is the benchmark for how the Bible should be read.

nope...His is

[DarrenJClark]

2 minutes ago, Jostler said:

The Word must interpret itself, and not ONE verse in it is in conflict with any other.  It's a lot better to seek Him  for understanding  of perceived contradictions, because the reality is it contains none.

I guess i should include those who selectively choose to believe a verse here, and dismiss a verse there.  We don't get to do that...our task is to learn how what is clearly there FITS....because there isn't a single verse that contradicts another in there either.  All of them matter and not one can be discarded because we don't understand how to place it in proper relationship to all the rest.

Seeing that is a call to study and prayer for understanding, not an invitation to add to it or dismiss it.

I showed exactly how the Bible interprets itself.  You are just ignoring it.

[simplejeff]

2 hours ago, Jostler said:

I deny efforts to intellectually explain away the simple meanings in  clear text.  And I avoid wasting time on  hopeless, pointless tasks whenever I can.

Yes,  keep this in mind also,  in all the topics, as appropriate,  as God's Word Says.  (it is much more important concerning other threads/topics ,  than is realized here in this thread).

1 hour ago, Jostler said:

anyone who decides the Word is something they have the authority to interpret.  And feels free to use their own imagination and intellect to explain away  it's meaning.

 

The Word must interpret itself, and not ONE verse in it is in conflict with any other.  It's a lot better to seek Him  for understanding  of perceived contradictions, because the reality is it contains none.

I guess i should include those who selectively choose to believe a verse here, and dismiss a verse there.  We don't get to do that...our task is to learn how what is clearly there FITS....because there isn't a single verse that contradicts another in there either.  All of them matter and not one can be discarded because we don't understand how to place it in proper relationship to all the rest.

Seeing that is a call to study and prayer for understanding, not an invitation to add to it or dismiss it.

"anyone" -  fits many people.....  let Yahweh Reveal Salvation and everything concerning Salvation, as He Says, as Jesus PRAISED HIM FOR,

to little children,  for this is His Good Pleasure so to do.  Totally and always, yes, in perfect harmony with all His Word, all Scripture, and His Plan, and His Purpose,  in Christ Jesus.

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by simplejeff

[DarrenJClark]

3 hours ago, Jostler said:

nope...His is

That was in response to my statement "Right, and I guess you think your reading and interpretation is the benchmark for how the Bible should be read. "

 

So if you think this is true then why not let Matt 3:12; 10:28; 13:40-42; John 3:16; Heb 10:27; and, 2 Thess 1:9 tell you that the wicked will be destroyed at the last judgement?  That would make sense of why John calls the LoF the second death when he says those whose names are not found in the book of life are thrown into it.

 

Revelation 20:14 - 21:1 

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.  15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.  

 

It would also make sense of why John says the beast is actually going to its destruction.

Revelation 17:11  

11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 

 

There are ample examples in the Bible and in Revelation where the plain language tells us the wicked will be destroyed and killed at the final judgment.  Why do you not read that language with its plain sense as God interpreted it for you?

[Omegaman 3.0]

Quote

putting your imagination and comparatively puny intellect above the clearly stated Words of His book, makes your God smaller than you  are.  Nice and comfy.....easy to manipulate.

Insulting pot shots like that, are a sure way to get oneself banned from a thread. Repeated offences, will find one under Moderator review, when nothing the person types will be display in any thread, unless it is first approved by a moderator, and that could take more that a day sometimes.

Let this serve as a warning to all, that poor conduct, may have consequences! 

I realize that you this member might only be saying, that compared with God, the other member has a puny intellect. However, it can too easily be seen as an insult, as in "you have a puny intellect, compared with  others".

Err on the side of love, caution and grace, and you will find that other members will not report you, which can result in our taking corrective measures. If one cannot be gracious toward other members, then it is wise to stick with  threads, where one's passions do not overwhelm one's self control.