Matthew 10:28 and hell

[DarrenJClark]

17 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

This is a blatant false hood .   the fiery trials of our faith are what TRUE belivers experience .   The lake of fire is for all who rejected Christ .

I seen this teaching before .   I wonder if you are part of that group .    Know anyone named pete or gilbert .   Gilbert  turned pete away from the truth .

And they then turned full force against me .    Pete was scared   ,  the spirit in him was scared and knew it could not counter the truth and thus they had me banned for life

This man gilbert seduced pete .   I did all to warn pete where this would lead and what ideals would spring from it .   He took not my warning

and gilbert seduced him .   Well,   I will continue to expose it , no matter what the cost .   Yall need to cease from this .

And instead focus on the gospel that saves men FROM that lake of fire   .  Instead of preaching a semi universal salvation that saves none ,  Start Preaching JESUS as the ONLY

savoir . Let no man take heed to your version of the lake of fire .   You and all who are adding to and taking from that book , are in serious grave danger .

Stead of trying to sugar coat with happy endngs ,  GO back to THE GOSPLE which keeps one from that lake of fire .  

 

If you are saying that my reading of Matthew 10:28 is one a universalist would make then you do not understand my argument or universalism.  I am a conditionalist.  Universalists do not like my interpretation of this verse because they need the wicked to remain alive in Gehenna to be purified by it and eventually be saved.  I am saying that this teaches the wicked are killed.  This could not be more antithetical to the teaching of universalism on this verse.

[DarrenJClark]

I am noticing that literally no one is commenting on my exegetical reasons for my reading of Matt 10:28.  How can I be said to be wrong if no one can show me why my exegesis is faulty.  C'mon everybody.  This is me trying to test the strength of my exegesis.  I want you all to comment on the arguments I do make rather than just circle around what I do say.  Stop nibbling at the edges.

 

Just telling me I am wrong, or you disagree, is just broad dismissal of my arguments.  Tell me specifically which argument is wrong and why it is wrong.

 

Thankyou.

[missmuffet]

Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"

Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

Edited March 6, 2019 by missmuffet

[DarrenJClark]

Just now, missmuffet said:

Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"

Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

Yes, I have read that article several times before and I can show you of my exegesis on those texts.  I did say in my original post that I recognize there are other verses and I can explain them.  What you are not doing is speaking to my exegesis of Matt 10:28.  You are just avoiding it.

[DarrenJClark]

5 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"

Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

I need to clarify something because you clearly do not understand my view of hell.  I believe there is a hell and that there is eternal fire, etc.  So posting an article designed to affirm there is a hell to try and prove me wrong is just an exercise is missing the point.

[Still Alive]

21 minutes ago, DarrenJClark said:

If you are saying that my reading of Matthew 10:28 is one a universalist would make then you do not understand my argument or universalism.  I am a conditionalist.  Universalists do not like my interpretation of this verse because they need the wicked to remain alive in Gehenna to be purified by it and eventually be saved.  I am saying that this teaches the wicked are killed.  This could not be more antithetical to the teaching of universalism on this verse.

When speaking in jail ministry, a point I really try to drive home is this:

Jesus saves. What does he save us from? The eternal effect of sin. And what is that eternal effect? It is explained in Genesis 2:17 - "...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Sin is missing God's mark. It is disobedience. The punishment is death. Jesus died, once for all, as an atonement. Our sins are forgiven. And there are no bible verses that turn the punishment to eternal torment. There ARE verses that can be used to support universalism, though. Not that I'm a universalist. I'm a conditionalist. The least supported position is ECT. All verses used to support it require a twisting of the verse and/or context. It gets you into trying to support arguments like, "well, BIBLICAL death isn't really death".

[Still Alive]

12 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"

Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

That's cut and paste of someone's opinion. But, question: What does an eternal or unquenchable fire do to something thrown into it?

Throw a fresh cottonwood log onto a fire and it might smolder and then put the fire out. Throw a fresh cottonwood log into an eternal or unquenchable (i.e. the log can't put it out) fire and the log is completely consumed. On a side note, God is called an all consuming fire. 

This may explain the title of Edward Fudge's excellent book on the subject.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"

Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

And that IS the GOOD NEWS SISTER .   THAT ALL WHO DO BELIEVE IN CHRIST are saved from that lake of fire .

I aint even going to bother responding to these fellows .    I will say this though ,  if they are gilbert or with that group.  We better PRAY for GEORGE .

Because they go after the leaders BEHIND the scenes . 

Its how this other group worked on pete .   They approached him behind the scenes and seduced him little by little . THEY got the one who ran one site ,

They wont ever stop sister .   I seen this spirit before .    That is how they work .    They plant ideas and they even believe its okay to lie , they call it Robbing the church .

they take it all out of text .  But if this is that group , they usually have a few already amongst the group that made friends .   They make friends

then they will play as though they might not agree all the way with them ,  but little by little they keep planting ideas ,   SISTER ,  I watched an entire site get taken captive by this .

It took a while .   ON and off it was around eight months or os .  IF this is that group , for it is the same spirit , but if it is this group , we got a major war on our hands .

And the last site ,  THEY WON  IT .  THEY WON IT .    They know how to deceive , they will get you into thought realm , they will twist stuff .  BE ON GUARD SISTER .

THEY are big time wise according to the flesh .    We have to stick with POINTING TO JESUS as the ONLY MEANS to escape the very real lake of fire .

They will say things to try and twist your mind .  An example , and GILBERT did this ,  HE tried to make it seem as though I was preaching JESUS as a failure

Because many will go to this lake of fire .  FUNNY thing , this dude did the same thing .   I am telling us all ,    Be on guard , it took an entire site , it took its leader

it took them all .    They are persistant .     We cannot let it get a foot hold in here .     I will tell you the same thing I told the last leader ,  only HE DIDNT LISTEN .

DO NOT debate them in PRIVATE .  IF they message you in private ,  IGNORE THEM .    

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, Still Alive said:

I believe he IS using the gospel. The problem is that you've only stated an opinion without supporting it, and discussed a couple of guys many here have probably never heard of. 

I'm with you regarding the "universalist" message. I do entertain it much more willingly than I'll entertain the ECT message. However, I only entertain it because I know the definition of "eternity" in the bible is a bit squishy and derived from a language (Greek) that has no word for it. Our english bibles use it all the time when referring to events that were most definitely NOT eternal. And we do to. When I was at DMV renewing my tags I had to wait "forever". 

Usually what the bible discusses is age or ages. 

Wouldn't it be fascinating, after we die, to discover that we only know of a string of five ages and, actually, there are infinite ages before the creation of earth and infinite ages following the creation of the new heaven and new earth - and that Jesus really did save ALL men, but only those that accepted the free gift were able to avoid the next age(s) of learning? 

I'm not saying I believe that, but if it were true, it would violate no scripture that I've come across yet.

I don't support univeralism either .      Yall we got to do what the early church did , they knew the lake of fire was real ,

THEY KNEW that Faith in Christ was the only way to escape it .    Instead of trying to preach a lie ,  WHY Don't we just preach CHRIST

WHY .   because it offends .      Because it does offend  .   WE must preach ONLY CHRIST and Him crucified . DO NOT entertain these things .

The good news is that JESUS IS the WAY of escape from the lake of fire .    This is all we need to teach .    SO teach it .     Lets not enteratain these lies .

Just point to CHRIST .     I got good news .   IF a man comes to CHRIST ,  that one is saved .  ITS ALL WE NEED TO FOCUS ON .

[DarrenJClark]

Just now, frienduff thaylorde said:

And that IS the GOOD NEWS SISTER .   THAT ALL WHO DO BELIEVE IN CHRIST are saved from that lake of fire .

I aint even going to bother responding to these fellows .    I will say this though ,  if they are gilbert or with that group.  We better PRAY for GEORGE .

Because they go after the leaders BEHIND the scenes . 

Its how this other group worked on pete .   They approached him behind the scenes and seduced him little by little . THEY got the one who ran one site ,

They wont ever stop sister .   I seen this spirit before .    That is how they work .    They plant ideas and they even believe its okay to lie , they call it Robbing the church .

they take it all out of text .  But if this is that group , they usually have a few already amongst the group that made friends .   They make friends

then they will play as though they might not agree all the way with them ,  but little by little they keep planting ideas ,   SISTER ,  I watched an entire site get taken captive by this .

It took a while .   ON and off it was around eight months or os .  IF this is that group , for it is the same spirit , but if it is this group , we got a major war on our hands .

And the last site ,  THEY WON  IT .  THEY WON IT .    They know how to deceive , they will get you into thought realm , they will twist stuff .  BE ON GUARD SISTER .

THEY are big time wise according to the flesh .    We have to stick with POINTING TO JESUS as the ONLY MEANS to escape the very real lake of fire .

They will say things to try and twist your mind .  An example , and GILBERT did this ,  HE tried to make it seem as though I was preaching JESUS as a failure

Because many will go to this lake of fire .  FUNNY thing , this dude did the same thing .   I am telling us all ,    Be on guard , it took an entire site , it took its leader

it took them all .    They are persistant .     We cannot let it get a foot hold in here .     I will tell you the same thing I told the last leader ,  only HE DIDNT LISTEN .

DO NOT debate them in PRIVATE .  IF they message you in private ,  IGNORE THEM .    

What are you talking about?  What group?  Who is Gilbert?  Who is contacting people by private message?  Not me.

You are poisoning the well without addressing my arguments.

Please stop speculating on my background and motives.