The Hebrews Roots Movement

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

Specifically you said "...they once had..."

This seems to contradict your main point above.   Did the sacrifices ONCE HAVE and now don't have the same power as Christ's.  

Or, did those sacrifices NEVER HAVE the same power? 

Just wondering. 

Be Blessed 

The Blood of bulls and goats under the Old covenant had the power to atone for sin (Atonement means to cover), they never had the power to take them away. Each year there was a Day of Atonement that brought a remembrance of sin. Jesus Blood is capable of not only atonement but removing the sin from us, ONCE FOR ALL. All our sins are forgiven by the cross Past, present, and future. His sacrifice fulfills all of the sacrifices which the Torah had and were a shadow of His sacrifice on the cross, and we know this is true by His resurrection. Thus the celebration of the Holy Days is ceremonial and in remembrance of the cross.  IT IS FINISHED!

Keeping these Holy days as a remembrance is fine, Much like we celebrate the communion in the church, and indeed they will be remembered rightly in the coming millennium, But any sacrifice associated with them will be merely ceremonial. For example we celebrate resurrection Sunday, But apart from going to church and having communion we do not have any specific ceremonies we do on that day, besides remembering what he has done, and glorifying Him. 

[BibleGuy]

14 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

The numbers will grow - not from reproduction, but from numbers added to the eternal kingdom, from "the rest of the dead" who are not resurrected until the 8th millennium.

I think we've still got reproduction....otherwise there would be no "youth" who could die at age 100 (Is.65:20).

And childbirth is explicitly mentioned (Is.65:23)...and infants are explicitly mentioned (Is.65:20).

Edited November 26, 2019 by BibleGuy
further support

[BibleGuy]

10 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Hi BibleGuy,

I didn't want to take up space quoting your entire post.   The whole CORPORATE vs INDIVIDUAL thing didn't make sense - to me at least. 

I realize you believe there can be no "change" to the way things were done during the "First Covenant".   Which means you read every passage with THAT belief.  I disagree with that view.  I believe "the priesthood" (of Levites) was "changed" back to the "firstborn" (Melchizedek) order of priesthood (the original order).  I read the passages with THAT understanding. 

Our individual understandings of all prophetic passages will differ, because our basic premise differs. 

I've heard HR teachers argue that God "never changes", and His "Law" never changes. 

But He did "change" from "the firstborn" to "the Levites" after the golden calf rebellion.

PRIOR TO THE GOLDEN CALF REBELLION

Exodus 13:2 "Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether human or animal."

Exodus 22:29  "The firstborn of your sons you shall give to Me."

AFTER THE GOLDEN CALF REBELLION

Numbers 3:12 "Look, I myself have taken the Levites from among the Israelites instead of every firstborn who opens the womb among the Israelites. So the Levites belong to me"

Numbers 3:12 "Now, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the sons of Israel instead of every first-born"

Numbers 3:41 And thou shalt take the Levites for me--I am the Lord--instead of all the first-born of the sons of Israel

THIS IS A CHANGE.

If the LORD changed the priesthood once, He could change it again - especially to change it back to what it was originally, once the death of His Son wiped away the old sins of Israel. 

"The whole CORPORATE vs INDIVIDUAL thing didn't make sense - to me at least. "

Pretend this prophecy is true: "Behold, oh America!  You shall rise up to be greater than ever before in the Gospel....you shall be a nation of teachers, preachers, and technological advancement, and you shall give birth to the greatest evangelists ever seen in the church."

Now, does this mean EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL in America will be a teacher AND a preacher AND a woman who gives birth to an evangelist?  Of course not!

These are simply descriptions of characteristics of some individuals within the group....

Same thing in Is.61:

But you will be called the priests of the LORD;
You will be spoken of as ministers of our God.
You will eat the wealth of nations,
And in their [fn]riches you will boast.

Instead of your shame you will have a double portion,
And instead of humiliation they will shout for joy over their portion.
Therefore they will possess a double portion in their land,
Everlasting joy will be theirs.

So, does this mean that EVERY individual priest will also be a person who inherits a double portion land inheritance?

No.  We simply have descriptions of characteristics of some individuals within the group.

That's how the CORPORATE interpretation works....and unless you show that the CORPORATE interpretation is NOT proper in Is.61, then it does not follow that Is. 61 must entail that all priests will have a land inheritance in Restored Israel.

 

"I realize you believe there can be no "change" to the way things were done during the "First Covenant".  "

You talking about the Levitical Covenant in particular?  or the Old Covenant in general?

"I believe "the priesthood" (of Levites) was "changed" back to the "firstborn" (Melchizedek) order of priesthood (the original order).  I read the passages with THAT understanding. "

Ok.  But I don't see why we should read it that way.

After all, LEVITES means LEVITES!

But if you want to assume LEVITES means MELCHIZEDEK....well....that doesn't make any sense to me.

 

"But He did "change" from "the firstborn" to "the Levites" after the golden calf rebellion."

Ok....let's take a look at this again....

 

 

"PRIOR TO THE GOLDEN CALF REBELLION

Exodus 13:2 "Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether human or animal."

Exodus 22:29  "The firstborn of your sons you shall give to Me."

AFTER THE GOLDEN CALF REBELLION

Numbers 3:12 "Look, I myself have taken the Levites from among the Israelites instead of every firstborn who opens the womb among the Israelites. So the Levites belong to me"

Numbers 3:12 "Now, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the sons of Israel instead of every first-born"

Numbers 3:41 And thou shalt take the Levites for me--I am the Lord--instead of all the first-born of the sons of Israel

THIS IS A CHANGE."

 

A change in what?  A change in the way God chooses priests?  No!  Here's why:

Ex. 13:2 is NOT talking about priest selection.  So, your "change in priesthood" is wrong, because Ex. 13:2 is not even talking about priests!

Likewise, Ex. 22:29 is NOT even talking about priests!

And, if the CHANGE were true, then Ex. 13:2 would NOT be in effect "after the golden calf rebellion"....but look!  Ex. 13:2 is still in force even in Lk. 2:23!  So that CHANGE is, again, seen to be a false idea in your mind.

Furthermore, " תַּחַת " can simply mean IN PLACE OF, so we need not assume that the "instead of" in Nu.3:12 and Nu.3:41 is a CHANGE from a previous pattern....rather, it may be understood as "in place of" in Nu.3:12 and Nu.3:41, in which case there is no CHANGE, but rather, Nu.3:12 and Nu.3:41 simply give information regarding God's methodology for priesthood selection.

That is, God chooses Levites for priests IN PLACE OF the firstborn, not because God previously chose ALL firstborn for priests, but because God simply chooses to select Levites IN PLACE OF the firstborn Israelites.

Moreover, God's Torah does not change! (Dt.4:2;12:32), so the very fact that you think it CHANGED is evidence that you're mistaken, given Dt. 4:2;12:32.

 

"If the LORD changed the priesthood once, He could change it again - especially to change it back to what it was originally, once the death of His Son wiped away the old sins of Israel. "

He didn't change it.

In fact, Jesus comes to RESTORE that very covenant with LEVI (Mal.3:4).  Of course, this refers to the LEVITICAL duties in the Torah of Moses, which shall be restored.

Dt. 30:1-8 promises us that 100% of ALL the Torah of Moses will again be obeyed, thus including all LEVITICAL Torah portions.

 

blessings...

Edited November 26, 2019 by BibleGuy
typo

[BibleGuy]

14 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Daniel 12:2-3 describes two groups of people was are resurrected at the Glorious Return.  Multitudes are raised, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt.  Those raised to eternal life, will receive immortal spiritual bodies.  Those raised to everlasting contempt, will face Yeshua for judgment, and then die as the earth is consumed by the last plagues. 

There is a third group of people.   "The rest of the dead" (Revelation 20:5).  This group of people are not resurrected at the Glorious Return.  They will sleep on in death for 1000 years.  They are resurrected at the 8th millennium.  I believe this group will consist of individuals who for whatever reason (immaturity/disability/circumstances)  lived and died in ignorance of GOD, and certainly in ignorance of His Son Yeshua.  God will not just leave them behind.  He will give them the opportunity to hear of HIM, and to choose whether to serve HIM.

When this third group of people are resurrected at the 8th millennium, they will need to learn the ways of the LORD.  They will need to learn of GOD's love as expressed through Messiah.  These will be "the nations" who "go up to the House of the LORD" to learn His ways.  They will need teachers.  They will need to be governed. 

I believe that "Israel" delivered and made immortal at the Glorious Return, will govern and teach these "nations" as priests under Yeshua Messiah.  Ezekiel's Temple is specifically for this period - for "the rest".  They will need a place of interface with GOD. 

This scenario fits the words of the prophecies. 

Because "the rest" are raised mortal, they can still die.  They can still commit murder.  These individuals can choose to serve Christ or to rebel against Him.  I believe that many will choose GOD.  I believe that multitudes will rebel.  They will gather under Gog, into the great Army of Gog/Magog.  This great army will come up to attack Jerusalem (Rev 20:7-10).  Fire will come down from Heaven, and consume them. 

 

I'm thinking there are two categories of Israelites at that time...those with resurrected bodies, and those without resurrected bodies.

After all, SOME Israelites at that time will be having children who live typically at least 100 years (Is.65:20).

 

[BibleGuy]

12 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Exodus 29:9  "so the ministry of priesthood will belong to them by a perpetual ordinance. Thus you are to consecrate Aaron and his sons."

Exodus 40:15 "and you shall anoint them even as you have anointed their father, that they may minister as priests to Me; and their anointing shall qualify them for a perpetual priesthood throughout their generations." (NAS)

Numbers 25:13 [To Phinehas the son of Eleazar] "and it shall be for him and his descendants after him, a covenant of a perpetual priesthood, because he was jealous for his God, and made atonement for the sons of Israel.'"

Here is the one most often sited to "prove" the continuation of the Levite/Aaronic priesthood. 

Jeremiah 33:20 "This is what the LORD says: 'If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time, 21 then my covenant with David my servant-- and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me-- can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne."

Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

First:  "Heaven and earth WILL PASS AWAY"  (Matthew 24:35).  Mark 13:31 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." Luke 21:33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."

Hebrews 1:10 He also says, "In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."

Question is:  When? 

WHEN will "heaven and earth" pass away, necessitating the creation of the "new heavens" and the "new earth" ? 

I believe this earth will be consumed in "fire" at the Glorious Return of Messiah.    "The sky was split apart like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place." (Rev 6:14 NET)  The forces it would take to flatten every mountain and island - WOW!  An earthquake on the Richter scale of 14.  The sun is heated seven times hotter.  It may go super nova.  Nothing living will survive such forces. 

Second: 

1 Samuel 2:27 "Then a man of God came to Eli and said to him, "Thus says the LORD:`Did I not clearly reveal Myself to the house of your father when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh's house? 28 `Did I not choose him out of all the tribes of Israel to be My priest, to offer upon My altar, to burn incense, and to wear an ephod before Me? [This has to be Levi/Aaron.]  And did I not give to the house of your father all the offerings of the children of Israel made by fire? 29 `Why do you kick at My sacrifice and My offering which I have commanded in My dwelling place, and honor your sons more than Me, to make yourselves fat with the best of all the offerings of Israel My people?' 30 "Therefore the LORD God of Israel says:`I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.' But now the LORD says:`Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed. 31 `Behold, the days are coming that I will cut off your arm and the arm of your father's house, so that there will not be an old man in your house. 32 `And you will see an enemy in My dwelling place, despite all the good which God does for Israel. And there shall not be an old man in your house forever. 33 `But any of your men whom I do not cut off from My altar shall consume your eyes and grieve your heart. And all the descendants of your house shall die in the flower of their age. 34 `Now this shall be a sign to you that will come upon your two sons, on Hophni and Phinehas: in one day they shall die, both of them. 35 `Then I will raise up for Myself a faithful priest who shall do according to what is in My heart and in My mind. I will build him a sure house, and he shall walk before My anointed forever. 36 `And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left in your house will come and bow down to him for a piece of silver and a morsel of bread, and say, "Please, put me in one of the priestly positions, that I may eat a piece of bread."'"

Here is the NIV.  "I will firmly establish his priestly house, and they will minister before my anointed one always." (1Sa 2:27 NIV)

The "faithful priest" would be Yeshua Messiah.  Those who will minister before Him - the LORD's anointed Son, will be the Melchizedek priests. 

The "enemy in My dwelling place" will be Antichrist, who "will sit in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God" (2Thess 2:4). 

This passage shows that the covenant of the priesthood was not unconditional.  The vows taken, and the blood anointing of priests at their consecration made that a "blood covenant". 

 

 

12 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

 

 

"Nothing living will survive such forces. "

Well, actually, even AFTER the fire (Is.66:15) we still see NATIONS (Is.66:20).

So evidently not EVERYONE on the planet dies.

 

"till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

And the "new heaven and new earth" may be DIFFERENT than "heaven and earth pass away".  These may be two different events, come to think of it.

 

"Those who will minister before Him - the LORD's anointed Son, will be the Melchizedek priests. "

Well, that's your eisegesis. 

I think they will be Levitical priests.

After all, we have plenty of Scripture telling about FUTURE Levitical activity....(Mal.3:4;Dt.30:1-8;Eze.40-47;Is.66;Is.61;Jer.33;Zec.14).

But "Melchizedek" is not even mentioned in this passage you quoted from Samuel.

 

blessings...

 

 

 

[BibleGuy]

13 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

The numbers will grow - not from reproduction, but from numbers added to the eternal kingdom, from "the rest of the dead" who are not resurrected until the 8th millennium.

Future Israel still has reproduction in the new heaven/earth era (Is.65:20), because youth will routinely live MORE than 100 years, and YOUTH come from REPRODUCTIVE activity.

In fact, childbearing is explicitly mentioned in that new heaven/earth era (Is.65:23).

Infants are also explicitly mentioned (Is.65:20).

blessings...

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by BibleGuy
more support for viewpoint

[BibleGuy]

9 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Christ is our sacrifice once for all. Obviously you did not read the passages. Here let me quote you some.

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:11-14)

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (9:24-28)

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and , not the very image of the things,can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to bnot the very image of the thingse offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (10:1-10)

So my question for you is do you believe in the blood of Jesus as the only sacrifice we need? Or do you like having a yearly remembrance of Sin made and never have your sins taken away? That is the difference between the Old and the New Covenant. In fact the Prophets of Old confirm this And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. (Jer. 3;16) 

If there is no more Ark of the covenant there is no more mercy seat upon which to sprinkle the Blood of bulls and Goats. 

To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; (Isa 1;11-17)

You of course are welcome to do them but they are empty of the power they once had. The Torah cannot save you nor can it take your sins away only Christ Jesus can by abiding in the vine. 

Hi there!  Thanks for sharing your viewpoint!

" Obviously you did not read the passages. Here let me quote you some."

Of COURSE I've read them!  After all....I'm the BIBLE GUY.....

So of course I uphold all Scripture.

 

Heb. 9:11-14?  It's all true!  But it says NOTHING about termination of Levitical/ceremonial/sacrificial activity.  And Heb. 8:10 and 10:16 confirm that the Torah of Moses (thus including Levitical activity) passes directly into the NEW Covenant.

NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8).

SAME Torah of Moses (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

 

Heb.9:24-28?  It's all true!  But it does NOT say that Levitical/ceremonial/sacrificial activity is terminated.

 

Heb. 10:1 says the law IS (present tense!) a shadow.  So, the shadow-function of Torah CONTINUES!  It is NOT terminated.

 

Heb. 10:9?  Yes.  The Old Covenant is taken away (also Heb.8:13).   And now we have the NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8).

The Torah of Moses was widely DISOBEYED in the Old Covenant (Heb.8:9).

The Torah of Moses is properly OBEYED in the New Covenant (Heb.8:10;10:16).

NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8).

SAME Torah of Moses (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

 

"So my question for you is do you believe in the blood of Jesus as the only sacrifice we need?"

The blood, alone, takes away our sins (1Jn.1:7).

But Jesus, Himself, comes to restore the Levitical/ceremonial/sacrificial activity "as in the days of old, as in former years" (Mal.3:4).  This is yet future.

 

So, we should do BOTH!  Be cleanse by Christ's blood (1Jn.1:7), and condone ALL Torah, even sacrificial Torah, just as Paul did (Ac.21) and just as THOUSANDS of 1st-century Christians also did (Ac.21:20).

Some Christians were even animal-sacrificing priests! (Ac.6:7).

And Levitical animal sacrifices WILL return (Dt.30:1-8;Eze.40-47;Jer.33;Is.66;Is.61;Zec.14;Mal.3:4;etc.)

 

"Or do you like having a yearly remembrance of Sin made and never have your sins taken away?"

Levitical sacrifices ATONE(cover) for sin, but Christ's blood TAKES AWAY our sins.

We should do both.  Be cleansed by Christ's blood.  And, when possible, partake in sacrificial Torah portions.....

The problem is this:  while in our present diaspora, we are not able to partake in sacrificial Torah portions....so, we wait until Dt. 30:1-8 finally happens.

 

"That is the difference between the Old and the New Covenant. "

Rather, a key difference is this:

The Torah of Moses was widely DISOBEYED in the Old Covenant (Heb.8:9).

The Torah of Moses is properly OBEYED in the New Covenant (Heb.8:10;10:16).

 

Jer.3:16 appears to confirm that the ark will not be present at the future restoration of Israel....but this need not be viewed as evidence that Torah is not in force at that time (because we know Torah WILL be in force at that time, Dt. 30:1-8).  Rather, Jer.3:16 may simply be taken as confirmation that the ark is NOT essential to any ongoing Torah commandment.

 

"If there is no more Ark of the covenant there is no more mercy seat upon which to sprinkle the Blood of bulls and Goats. "

Or, Ex. 25:21 is context-specific to that time....whereas, the future mercy seat will simply not have an ark.

After all, I don't see anything in the Torah of Moses which states that you can't have a mercy seat without an ark.

And, Jer. 3:16 + Dt. 30:1-8 jointly confirm that you CAN and WILL have a mercy seat with no ark.

Remember, not EVERYTHING in the Torah of Moses is an ONGOING Torah commandment for ALL Israelites at ALL future times.

For example, some of the instructions in Ex. 12 are context-specific, and do NOT apply to future times.

 

Is. 1 merely confirms that God opposes IMPROPER sacrificial activity, not ALL sacrificial activity.

Remember?  God opposes unrighteous sacrifices (Ps.51:16), but God DELIGHTS in RIGHTEOUS SACRIFICES, BURNT OFFERINGS, WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS, AND YOUNG BULLS, etc. (Ps. 51:19).

 

"You of course are welcome to do them but they are empty of the power they once had. "

SAME power.  They ATONE/COVER for sins...they function as an ongoing (present tense!) SHADOW (Col.2:17;Heb.10:1).  The shadow did NOT terminate.  It IS (present tense) an ongoing shadow.

They NEVER took sins away (Heb.10:4).  Only the blood of Christ takes away our sins (1Jn.1:7).

 

"The Torah cannot save you"

Jesus IS the Torah (Jn.1:14)...and Jesus saves! (Mt.1:21)

Of COURSE we are not saved by works without faith.

Only the BLOOD of Christ cleanses us from sins (1Jn.1:7).

But that same Christ requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

 

"nor can it take your sins"

The blood of bulls and goats does NOT take our sins away (Heb.10:4).  It merely ATONES (covers) for sin.

 

"only Christ Jesus can by abiding in the vine. "

We who abide in Him should also have His words abide in us (Jn.15:7)....and His words require ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20)....even desiring sacrifices from people of all nations (citing Is.56:7 at Mk. 11:17).

 

blessings...

[BeauJangles]

11 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

I'm the BIBLE GUY.....

Sooo bro, 

Just curious. Are you Jewish, converted to Judaism, or just another Christian who wishes now to observe the tanakh because you found the regiment to observance of 613 - 1 law concerning women's mense, something you felt led to do? Even Peter had a vision from the Lord, and he no longer had to remain kosher due to his commision to the Gentiles. Was he then in violation of the tanakh? What about that? 

Acts 10:9-16 New King James Version (NKJV) Peter’s Vision 9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about [a]the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has [b]cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

 

[BibleGuy]

37 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

Sooo bro, 

Just curious. Are you Jewish, converted to Judaism, or just another Christian who wishes now to observe the tanakh because you found the regiment to observance of 613 - 1 law concerning women's mense, something you felt led to do? Even Peter had a vision from the Lord, and he no longer had to remain kosher due to his commision to the Gentiles. Was he then in violation of the tanakh? What about that? 

Acts 10:9-16 New King James Version (NKJV) Peter’s Vision 9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about [a]the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has [b]cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

 

Hi there!

"Just curious. Are you Jewish"

Never did a blood test....but not sure that would prove anything anyway....I mean really....does anyone REALLY have evidence that a particular individual's DNA matches back to one of Jacob's sons (i.e., Judah)?

 

"converted to Judaism"

Well....there are (and have been for thousands of years) MANY JUDAISMS.....

And, depending on definitions, you could even argue that Christianity is the only TRUE Judaism.

After all, Jesus is Jewish...the Apostles are Jewish....the Scriptures are preserved for us by Jews....sounds like Christianity is a sect of Judaism (Ac.24:14)!  The CORRECT sect.

But, I'm not sure what definitions you have in mind....

 

"just another Christian who wishes now to observe the tanakh because you found the regiment to observance of 613"

Actually, 613 is likely the wrong number.  After all, Dt. 4:15 did not even make the list of 613...

And we obey because it's required by the Father, Son, Spirit, Moses, the other prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Gospels, Apostles, Epistles, Hebrews, even Revelation, as an expression of love, faith, goodness, holiness, righteousness, because of the Lord's great mercy and grace shown to us in His Son.

 

"1 law concerning women's mense, something you felt led to do? "

Well, I'm not female....but thanks for checking on that one....

Sure, it's good to grow in obedience to all presently observable Torah portions....

But at least SOME of the laws of " נִדָּה " require functioning Levitical priests (e.g., Lev.12:6) which we don't presently have....

So, there's only so much we can do while in diaspora....but don't worry!  We WILL again obey 100% of all Torah when we return to inherit the land promised to us (Mt.5:5;Gal.3:29;Eph.3:6;Dt.30:1-8).

 

"Even Peter had a vision from the Lord, and he no longer had to remain kosher due to his commision to the Gentiles. Was he then in violation of the tanakh? What about that? "

I'm glad you asked me about that!  This question comes up A LOT.  And it's a common mistake....I used to make the same mistake....so I understand where you're coming from...

 

Ac. 10 has Peter telling us the MEANING of the vision....it's about the DUDE....not the FOOD!

See look: "...I should not call any MAN unholy or unclean" (Ac. 10:28).

And, Peter CONTINUES to apply Lev. 11 to you (1Pe.1:16). 

So Peter CONTINUED to obey Lev. 11 and required it of others as well.

 

blessings to you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by BibleGuy
added "(i.e., Judah)". Explained why we obey.

[BeauJangles]

9 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

Actually, 613 is likely the wrong number.  After all, Dt. 4:15 did not even make the list of 613...

Oh, okay. I see. 

 

1. Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

   www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

   A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) For commandments that can be observed today, I have also provided citations to the Chafetz Chayim's Concise Book of Mitzvot (CCA refers to affirmative commandments; CCN refers to negative commandments;