Tigger56 Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said: Shalom my brother, I agree with that, but the concept of iron sharpening iron assumes that both sides are equal. This isn't really reflected in a lot of "salvation-debate" posts, in which one side, or poster, says that they ARE saved, and the opposition is not (usually done by implication). I agree with you that such posts should just be ignored. However, it's usually because of the poster's bold provocation unfortunately starts pulling the attention away from those who would otherwise do good. When I see so much focus and attention wasted on "salvation-debate" posts and then other posts elsewhere, asking for help, with next to no replies - it's heartbreaking. "The harvest is ripe, but the workers are.... busy bickering over the basics." Love & Shalom I agree that it can be one sided, but amazingly enough with truth at our side, I never feel we are outnumbered! I notice that some posts are ignored. I don't always respond because some of the other replies, many done by you and Beaujangles are very well done. Perhaps I should simply agree more with your posts but you and Beaujangles show a lot of wisdom in much that you say. Don't mean to embarrass you two! Of course you aren't the only two as I do greatly appreciate the wisdom and compassion displayed by some in this forum while some just come across as hard headed (that may be me). I love God's scriptures but sometimes the responses from others are just so many scriptures being quoted that they fail to truly answer some people's needs and questions at a more personal level. Sometimes people need to be listened to and personal answers given not just a scripture quoted. I applaud you, beaujangles, border cowboy, thomas, listener, and others for your personal answers. Too often even in the general discussions I see "knee jerk" reactions instead of an indication that others are really reading what is written. I feel "reading comprehension" is something that has weakened overtime in a society that watches tv, etc... more than reading and sometimes it becomes apparent in the posts done in this forum. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,375 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said: Shalom all, Is it just me or has this forum become very "heavy" lately? I like debate as much as the next guy, if not more. However, I'm acutely aware of the fine line between healthy, intellectual debate and endless locking-of-horns arguing. Now when I go in to certain rooms (including General Discussion) it's with a weary sigh at what arguments are still raging and multiplying. Look at this forum with the eyes of a new believer, excited at finding the Lord and full of joy to share, only to run into all this heaviness, endless arguments and provocative attitudes. At the moment I'm not recommending this forum to anyone. I struggle to find many posts that uplift, teach and encourage others. Even when such posts appear they disappear soon after, eclipsed with repetitive nonsense for 48 pages, fresh for all to see. What a sad state we're in at the moment. Where is the love & peace? You know, it seems to be happening everywhere these days, including my own little Baptist Church. I don't recall such a great division and lack of respect and courtesy in the church (Christians) growing up as I do today. I believe it's one of the signs of the times; and the Bible calls it apostasy. Satan never misses an opportunity to deceive, plant strife and confusion, or angst between God's children. Unfortunately, I personally don't see anything getting better from here on out, only getting worse. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tigger56 said: I applaud you, beaujangles, border cowboy, thomas, listener, and others for your personal answers. Thank you for your kind words brother. Amen, the members above, you and a handful of others I applaud and am grateful to Yahweh for. 7 minutes ago, Tigger56 said: Too often even in the general discussions I see "knee jerk" reactions instead of an indication that others are really reading what is written. So true. Sometimes it seems like a rush to the conclusion rather than care. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: You know, it seems to be happening everywhere these days, including my own little Baptist Church. I don't recall such a great division and lack of respect and courtesy in the church (Christians) growing up as I do today. I believe it's one of the signs of the times; and the Bible calls it apostasy. Satan never misses an opportunity to deceive, plant strife and confusion, or angst between God's children. Unfortunately, I personally don't see anything getting better from here on out, only getting worse. Wow Dennis, that is a interesting viewpoint. I hadn't considered that WCF may be a fair cross-section of the Church in general. Very interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2019 FWIW, I think one of our biggest problems in western Christianity is that we idolize our explanations of what God does over Him actually doing things. What I mean is this. We rejoice over what God does in someone's life, and then argue about how and why He did it. We'll then cut off fellowship with someone who disagrees with our explanation with noble sounding words such as "defending the Truth" and "being Biblical". When push comes to shove, our idolizing of our doctrinal opinions as being of near equal authority to scripture causes us to be unable to be with other Christians without violating our conscience. We start to want to protect new believers from those who have the explanations wrong. Sadly, many churches take this approach making sure to indoctrinate all new members and believers into their distinctive beliefs about why they are right and other churches are wrong. Over time, I slowly started to treasure fruit and maturity in other Christians over doctrinal correctness. At this point in my life, I'd rather hang around believers that treasure and exhibit fruit and growth over the how much they agree with me about the Truth. I used to judge churches and individual Christians by how much they adhered to my list of correct doctrinal items. I now see that the only thing that really matters is that a lifetime of abiding in Christ produces fruit and maturity that cannot be counterfeited. On a site like this, it takes awhile, but I try to figure out who are the people who constantly seem to exhibit good fruit, common sense, discernment, and freely share about what God's done in their life and others' lives that they know. They're the ones I usually learn the most from and benefit the most from reading. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said: Shalom all, Is it just me or has this forum become very "heavy" lately? I like debate as much as the next guy, if not more. However, I'm acutely aware of the fine line between healthy, intellectual debate and endless locking-of-horns arguing. Now when I go in to certain rooms (including General Discussion) it's with a weary sigh at what arguments are still raging and multiplying. Look at this forum with the eyes of a new believer, excited at finding the Lord and full of joy to share, only to run into all this heaviness, endless arguments and provocative attitudes. At the moment I'm not recommending this forum to anyone. I struggle to find many posts that uplift, teach and encourage others. Even when such posts appear they disappear soon after, eclipsed with repetitive nonsense for 48 pages, fresh for all to see. What a sad state we're in at the moment. Where is the love & peace? I'm a veteran of political sites since 1997, so it's not all that big a deal to me, but I do feel that some seem to have come here just to argue. I used the phrase "Holy cow!" at the beginning of a post and someone chastized me because "only God is holy". I thought they were joking as I started reading their post, but it became clear they were not. I could argue indefinitely or just ignore it. Instead, I just linked to a couple of articles about the use of the word in the bible. And I have no need to continue with it. The reason the arguments get strong, I think, is because of the nature of the internet. What you see from me here is what you would see from me in the real world, but I think I'm one of the exceptions. Some come across as EXTREMELY heavy, yet they may be downright mousy in real life. And I've found that, usually, the more "angry and forceful" a poster is, the less they can actually argue their position. I Actually left my last church over the second in command there pulling something like that on the rethinking hell Facebook page. He made a couple of feeble attempts at arguing for Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) and when they politely responded with the easy and standard arguments that make their case most strongly and simply, he came back with, "All I see here are lies." I was done with that church at that point. It allowed me to find the best church I've ever attended though. But I do see arguments that seem to come from the same spirit as his last post there did, but avoiding the use of words like "lies". I discuss with them a little and once the debate has gone full circle I usually bow out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said: Hi Michael, I do not run a forum on my website or plan to. It's for informative purposes only. However, my tips would be: Philippians 2:3-4 "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others." Refrain from writing anything you wouldn't want the Lord to scrutinise, on the Day of Accounting. Do not post if you have ANY attitude other than: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5:22) Your number two is a rule I've had in place since 1997. I articulate it thusly: Every time you post something on the internet, assume that the one person in the world that wants to do you the most harm will read it. And they will use it in any way possible to harm or discredit you. It's served me very well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said: Shalom David, It's a relief to hear I am not the only one. However, it's not just the non-believers or "trolls" that are disturbing the peace, but also some brothers and sisters who are becoming consumed with being proved right. I've seen a lot of that. I get the feeling that some of those that have been here a while are being challenged on some of their beliefs like never before. In a way, that's a good thing. But sometimes people just refuse to give up what turn out to be "dogmatic" beliefs. That is, things they believe staunchly, but when challenged, they can't support it. And rather than change their mind, they dig in their heels. It really should not be that way. That is what the Pharisees did. Edited May 14, 2019 by Still Alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Tigger56 said: Sometimes the discussions can get animated for sure, but overall, I do believe it is as iron sharpening iron. I don't care for "epistles" being posted, but usually don't read a response if it gets too long. There is definitely passion in plentiful amounts but maybe not enough compassion. But if the general discussions get to be too much I can always skip or ignore a topic and I truly do appreciate the other areas within this forum. I have enjoyed reading some of the testimonials, praises, and so many positive things. I would be glad to recommend the site to others but tell them that just because something is posted you don't have to read it. This is exactly my take on the whole thing. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted May 14, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 Wise words @GandalfTheWise, I fully agree with your stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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