Firm Foundation Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Still Alive said: When I said, "how Dramatic", I was being too argumentative. That is, I agree with you, but I'm just always on my guard against judging another by their works. I've seen it this way for a long time: Imagine, on a scale of 1-10, the best human is a 10, and the worst a 1. Imagine Joe is not a Christian and was raised to be a 9, but is living as a 6. Imagine Bill was raised to be a 1, was living as a 1, and then became a Christian. And now, on the "goodness" scale, he's a 4. So this means that Bill, at a 4, showed a significant lifestyle change and is saved, but Joe, at a 6, is lost. I actually see a lot of that around me. I think it is about doing our best. God knows our heart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,774 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,465 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted July 16, 2019 I cleaned a few posts out of this thread. Be careful of making direct accusations. If you want to discuss a topic, by all means do so ... without it being personal. It's very simple and not to hard to understand ... and the real question ... asked at the beginning of this thread ... Is believing described in John 3:16 enough to save? The real question is this ... is BELIEVING enough? The word believe is MUCH different today ... than how it was written and intended in Greek. I share this illustration often when discussing what it means to believe. This is a lesson I've not yet published ... but working on. Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. So what does it truly mean to believe? Words often lose meaning over time and at times it's best to explain the ancient understanding with a story. Imagine for a moment, that you are sitting at Niagara Falls. You can see the enormous amount of water going over the falls, you've heard the stories of people going over the falls in a barrel, and the legends that make the falls famous. When watching, you see a high wire being established over the falls ... stretching over the mile or so across the Niagara River. A man appears and announces -- I'm going over the FALLS on this tightrope! So the man walks across the tightrope, and walks back and forth. People are gathering all around ... watching him and seeing if he plunges to his death! After he returns, he asks -- Do you want to see more? The crowd starts gathering ... chanting -- Yes! Yes! So he goes across, and this time he starts doing flips, starts doing cartwheels, all kinds of acrobatic tricks! He returns after a few minutes. Upon returning -- He looks down and sees a dog -- and not just a dog -- it's a GREAT DANE. Apparently its his Great Dane. You look at the size of this dog -- it's a huge dog .. and he picks up his dog! The dog is whimpering ... and scared to death ... and he gets up on the high wire ... and walks across the Falls with the dog in his arms. He goes across and drops him off on the Canadian side of the falls! He returns ... So he says upon his arrival, Does anyone believe that I can take a man going across these falls? The crowd is chanting, Yes! Yes! You've just seen the most incredible feats displayed before your eyes ... and you say, YES! YES! The man looks down toward you, and says -- GREAT, GET UP and CLIMB ON MY SHOULDERS! Now the MOMENT of TRUTH has come ... Because if he falls, it's death! You're now placing your entire life, your existence into his hands ... and now the question is, Do you really believe? To believe is trusting your entire life, your entire existence in what God has done, and is doing for you! So this is the belief that saves! Do you believe? If so, then the answer is YES! God bless, George 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 All, Please be civil. Let's discuss as brothers and sisters, our fight is spiritual, not carnal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 The question I would ask you George is this. Do you agree with the faith plus nothing doctrine some are promoting where you simply believe Jesus is who he says he is and you can continue living in sin? We have people saying practicing homosexuals and scoundrels are going to heaven just because they believe and I mean without repenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,774 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,465 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted July 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: The question I would ask you George is this. Do you agree with the faith plus nothing doctrine some are promoting where you simply believe Jesus is who he says he is and you can continue living in sin? We have people saying practicing homosexuals and scoundrels are going to heaven just because they believe and I mean without repenting. Obviously, this is a two pronged question. First question ... once salvation occurs can you lose it? No, I don't how how someone can be "un-birthed". I discussed this at full length on this thread. Secondly, the EVIDENCE of someone's salvation is seriously at doubt in living a lifestyle with no signs of fruits of repentance. The fruits of repentance though ... are not connected to salvation ... it's connected to the "EVIDENCE of TRUE SALVATION!" When Jesus tells those in Matthew 7 -- Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ It says that they never were TRULY born again! It doesn't SAY they were saved ... and suddenly lost their salvation. It says they WERE NEVER SAVED to begin with. They spouted the company line ... said the right things ... but their hearts were never truly birthed into the Kingdom of God. So the question remains ... not if someone can lose their salvation ... the TRUE QUESTION is -- ARE YOU TRULY SAVED? This is the debate that should be taking place. I hope this answers this question fully, Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 Thanks George. That is worth discussing, because I find it hard to imagine unrepentant fornicators, adulterers, thieves, prostitutes, pimps, drug pushers, etc. will go to heaven just because they believe in Jesus as some here are teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,774 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,465 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted July 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: just because they believe in Jesus as some here are teaching. The real question is as it was before ... do they TRULY BELIEVE? What does that word BELIEVE mean? If understood in the context as I've spoken of before ... then YES ... but what would follow that belief --- is "fruits of repentance." Without any fruit ... it would be hard to press the case ... they are truly birthed into the Kingdom. However, any fruit produced ... doesn't keep one saved or unsaved ... it's merely the "evidence" of true salvation. If you confuse the two ... you can live a life constantly in fear of "losing" salvation over a sin ... and thus believing that "you need to constantly be birthed into the Kingdom" to stay saved ... this is a major error. For truly there remains a REST for the people of God ... and you must "strive" to enter that rest. What's the striving involved ... to let go ... and simply believe ... Yes, Jesus you died for my sins ... and I'm trusting you alone to save me! Into your arms I commend my spirit! That's salvation! Once you're heart experiences that true salvation ... then your heart leaps for joy, exhilaration ... and your life will produce a lifestyle of good works ... not to earn salvation ... but rather -- because your heart is filled with His Love! Good works do not equal salvation ... Good works are the EVIDENCE of salvation ... and is part of the SANCTIFICATION process! If you confuse the two processes -- salvation and sanctification ... then suddenly you fall into the trap ... you need to "work" or "earn" your salvation ... when YOU CAN'T! I hope this answers the question fully, Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: 3 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: The Old Testament Law addresses the church? Many other examples can be given. There is "no need to address the unsaved"? Why do I give them Bibles to read? The Old Testament Law addresses the church? Many other examples can be given. There is "no need to address the unsaved"? Why do I give them Bibles to read? We are not talking about the Old Testament. Are we on the same page together? let me rephrase. In the parables Matt 24 &25 Jesus addresses the New Testament believers. These parables do not support OSAS. He is saying you could miss your dinner date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Firm Foundation said: This has been reported. Why not defend yourself with Scripture instead of crying to the mods? If the shoe fits- wear it......or prove me wrong. I invite any and all who worry about “ willful sinning” to view what George posted in the video section under Tozer....so simply explained......I wish I knew about this Tozer sermon years ago....I hope Newbies will get off on the right foot.....Don’t fall for the misunderstand of this verse that many will not even look at.....this is not a case where “ ignorance is bliss”.....God orders us to “ show ourselves to be good students of His Word”. The Bible can be a very dangerous book if you are not willing to “ rightly divide” God’s Word. Edited July 16, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted July 16, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,774 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,465 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Why not defend yourself with Scripture instead of crying to the mods? I'd prefer that all issues of offense be reported ... otherwise it sows a root of bitterness within people that should NEVER be allowed to root! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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