while I'm stuck in here, why God let Israel into slavery in Egypt?

[imnotJohnSmith]

thanks thomas

[imnotJohnSmith]

But Thomas,

this also show Israel didn't like it in Egypt.

Exodus 2:23 ¶ And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of
Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of
the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto
God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his
covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God
had respect unto them.

 

Guess they paying for the choice of their fathers, right?

 

[imnotJohnSmith]

Nazi Germany was within a generation's  time, 1930s to 1945, but later, East Germany paid much more, to 1989~91, maybe still today, the whole Germany is recovering economically from unification, and East Prussia is lost to Russian forever maybe?

Turkey's Erdogan is not too long in power? Just quite recently, maybe?

Hamas is different story.

The real seriously bad one are Venezuela, iran, china, north Korea.

The bible says, (can't remember the exact quotes), all earthly powers and governments are raised by God.

So God raised up Venezuela, iran, china, north Korea,and historically, Nazis, Bolsheviks, imperial Japanese militarism... because of our unbelief?

Your thoughts please.

[thomas t]

4 hours ago, imnotJohnSmith said:

Your thoughts please.

oh yes, thank you...

Prussia is gone for Germany. Note that in Prussia, two thirds of the population voted for Hitler in '33.

Turkey voted for Erdogan several times. So they truely chose him - and thus absence of freedom.

Well Israel first cried and sighed but later said why did we leave Egypt... so they were quite unsure about this, I guess?

4 hours ago, imnotJohnSmith said:

So God raised up Venezuela, iran, china, north Korea,and historically, Nazis, Bolsheviks, imperial Japanese militarism... because of our unbelief?

Many believers voted for Hitler, too. In my opinion, it's the readiness to use unlimited violence that makes them rise. 

Sadly, here on Worthy, we had a thread embracing useless political violence, too. Click at this one (and look at the dates, the two first posts remained unchallenged for 18 months!!).

 

But the Bible further explains in Judges 9:14

Then all the trees said to the bramble, ‘You come and reign over us.’

This verse really is about behavior believers show. As sad as it may be - blindness to political extremism isn't limited to non-believers.

Thomas

Edited July 5, 2019 by thomas t
shortened the post

[imnotJohnSmith]

10 hours ago, thomas t said:

Sadly, here on Worthy, we had a thread embracing useless political violence, too. Click at this one (and look at the dates, the two first posts remained unchallenged for 18 months!!). 

Well I took a look at that topic,

I don't like the Crusade, but it's not useless.

10 hours ago, thomas t said:

oh yes, thank you...

Prussia is gone for Germany. Note that in Prussia, two thirds of the population voted for Hitler in '33.

Turkey voted for Erdogan several times. So they truely chose him - and thus absence of freedom.

Well Israel first cried and sighed but later said why did we leave Egypt... so they were quite unsure about this, I guess?

Many believers voted for Hitler, too. In my opinion, it's the readiness to use unlimited violence that makes them rise. 

Sadly, here on Worthy, we had a thread embracing useless political violence, too. Click at this one (and look at the dates, the two first posts remained unchallenged for 18 months!!). 

 

But the Bible further explains in Judges 9:14

Then all the trees said to the bramble, ‘You come and reign over us.’

This verse really is about behavior believers show. As sad as it may be - blindness to political extremism isn't limited to non-believers.

Thomas

So I guess your conclusion maybe non-believers and believers together brought tyranny onto themselves?

 

But what about Abraham gone to save his brother Lot in Sodom?

Abraham debated with God on sparing the city of Sodom for a certain number of righteous people in it. (GEN  18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also
destroy the righteous with the wicked?)

Well God in the end did destroy Sodom, but got Abraham and Lot a way out of it.

So I believe there are good and righteous people in Venezuela, iran, china, north Korea,and historically, Nazis Germany, Bolsheviks Russia, imperial Japan...

and they suffered or died in them. (in contrast to Abraham and Lot)

What should believers who are under tyranny/evil rule do, to secure the blessing and mercy God showed unto Lot?

[thomas t]

9 hours ago, imnotJohnSmith said:

What should believers who are under tyranny/evil rule do, to secure the blessing and mercy God showed unto Lot?

my two cents: if you're the only one that wants some freedom for the people... just leave. Like Lot did in the end.

Actually, many Germans did emigrate in '33. They weren't welcomed everywhere, but many countries accepted them. In my opinion, those Germans who left '33 fared much better than those who stayed and then had to suffer the poverty after 1945.

In Germany, believers voted for Hitler indeed, sadly enough*.

Thomas

* if you want to read more, and if you have a good translation program (if you are very interested, I could translate, too) look at this link here. They all voted Hitler. This church as of today still has some 120 000 members, as far as I know.

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by thomas t
shortened the post

[Worship Warriors]

God wanted them in Egypt to preserve them as a nation until they became great in numbers. Then God wanted them in Egypt until the wickedness of the Canaanites had reached its fullness. Israel did not go into Canaan to plunder and steal the land of loving people. Israel came as God’s instrument to bring judgement on a wicked nation because of their wickedness. God gave them 430 years to repent before bringing judgment on them. If God did not bring judgement on them, then He would not be righteous. Besides the land would have vomited all its inhabitants if Israel did not dispossessed them.

[imnotJohnSmith]

thanks for your two cents, Thomas,

But on many occasions people are unable to leave,

they need Abraham or Moses ,,, a deliverer.

I know Hitler was elected by democratic votes, more precisely NSDAP party was elected as the majority party in the German parliament, and thus Hitler as its party head, became the Chancellor, I studied history, ww2 history is interesting and Germany and its culture and history are interesting.

Thanks for the pdf, I've been trying to study the German language, this give me opportunity to use my dictionary and maybe learn some German words! What's amazing was, the other day I was watching a German ads, and I had one sentence completely understood by me, and my german language skills are very close to zero, it felt amazing.

[KPaulG]

Welcome.

[thomas t]

23 hours ago, imnotJohnSmith said:

I've been trying to study the German language,

Thanks for the debate. If ever you'll have a problem again when you explain faith to some newbies, let the forum know please.

Thomas