The teachings of Christ

[unworthyservant]

I am new to this chat thing but I am here to discuss the teachings of Christ and how they apply to the present day and age. Personally I believe that the teachings of Christ should be taken literally and I find that every where I turn everyone is teaching everything but the teachings of Christ. Christ's teachings are actually pretty simple when you get right down to it. He taught three basic things. First, he taught that we must have faith in him and his authority. Second he taught that we must put that faith into action by repenting of our sins and then live our lives according to God's law and Christ's teachings. Thirdly, he taught us exactly what was sin (the things we must turn away from) and then he taught the things we should do to worship God and the main focus was on using whatever God gives you to help those in need. That's pretty well it in a nutshell. So my question is why everyone seems to focus on all the side issues that have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ. For instance, I hear evangelical preachers preach hard and heavy about the evils of homosexuality and yet they say nothing about the members of their congregation who are divorced and remarried and thus living in sin. I think everyone would agree that if a murderer accepts Christ as his Savior he must repent of his sin and stop killing people but what about those living in a sinful marriage situation? I don't hear much about that. It's like the old story about a preacher from Indiana who went to Kentucky where a church was in search of a pastor. the deacons of the church told him that he could have a one month trial where he would preach one sermon per week for four weeks and then they would decide if he got the job. Well, being an old fashioned teetotaler he preached his first sermon on the evils of strong drink and how alcohol abuse would lead to destruction. After the sermon the deacons approached the preacher and told him "You seem like a good preacher but you can't preach on drinking because many of this congregation work at the local distillery". So the next week he changes gears and preached on being good stewards of your money and mentioned the evils of gambling your money. After the service the deacons again approached the preacher and told him "Preacher, you can't preach on gambling. Many of the congregation either work at the local race track or have horses that race there." SO the preacher came back the third time and this time he preached about how our body is the temple of the Lord and we shouldn't poison it with things like tobacco. Again the deacons reprimanded him telling him that many of the congregation were tobacco farmers, so he should lay off the smoking thing. The preacher was frustrated and he asked the deacons "What do you think I should preach on?" After some thought they said "Why don't you preach on heathen witch doctors? We don't have any of them for miles around." Now before it becomes a part of the discussion I will note that I don't believe that any of the things mentioned in the sermons in the story are necessarily explicitly forbidden by Christ. The point of the story isn't what you might think about the sermons but that the people wanted someone who would preach what they wanted to hear. Everyone can agree that heathen witch doctors are not of Christ. The idea is that everyone wants the church to adhere to societal norms and they have found ways to teach around the teachings of Christ and instead teach the things that will fill the seats or inspire donations or offerings. That brings up another dilemma. That is what Christ taught about money. Christ spoke frequently about money, the accumulation of wealth, earthly treasures and how we should deal with our finances. In every instance he taught that we should not engage in the pursuit of worldly treasures or pleasures but rather if God blesses you with money, you should give it ALL to the poor in order to show God's love through your actions. Everywhere you look you see preachers getting rich through donations and the selling of books. They build themselves mansions and then brag about all the good work they are doing. Did Jesus teach his disciples  to go and preach in order to accumulate earthly wealth? NO! Just the opposite! He taught them to not accept monetary compensation for their work. During Christ's ministry the only thing that ever drove Him to anger was the time he confronted the money changers and sellers in the temple. What was it that they were doing that drove Christ to such measures? They were profiting from selling things for worship. So, what would Christ think of all the people, companies and corporations that are making massive amounts of money selling everything from Bibles to books, literature, crosses and "pictures of Jesus" (Its ironic that the image we have of Jesus is thought to be the image of an illegitimate son of a Renaissance pope.) The point is that Jesus never taught us to spend money on anything to worship but rather taught only to honor God by using our money to help those less fortunate. I used to believe the tenets taught by Fundamental Independent Missionary Baptist Churchs and still feel that they have some very good beliefs. Over the years I have learned that they, along with every other church I have attended or looked into, are tailoring the teachings of Christ to fit their beliefs. many of which are not of Christ but are beliefs that were begun in the aftermath of the Reformation. The Catholic beliefs really blow my mind with all the rituals and beliefs that have evolved over the centuries and many are in direct conflict with the teachings of God. Just one example is the confession to a priest who then absolves you of the sin. I understand that sometimes a few hail Marys are involved. The problem is that Jesus taught that ONLY GOD could absolve any sin and confession was to be made to God and to the person against whom you have sinned. As you may have noticed, I could go on for hours but the question at the heart of the matter is are there others who see that the Churches have obscured the teachings of Christ to the point that the modern churches have strayed so far from His teachings that they hardly resemble anything that Christ taught about His church? Please let me know what you think and I'm happy to discuss anything pertaining to the teachings of Christ.

[Michael37]

On 8/13/2019 at 4:17 AM, unworthyservant said:

Please let me know what you think and I'm happy to discuss anything pertaining to the teachings of Christ.

Good points. What to do without getting fried, like Uzzah , , ,

 Notes on 2 Samuel 6 and 1 Chronicles 13 

Uzzah was one of the men guiding the Ark of the Covenant, a sacred chest symbolizing God's presence and covenant with Israel, as it was being transported to Jerusalem. Unfortunately, the Ark was placed on a cart—against God’s prescribed method of transportation, which required it to be carried on poles by Levites. As the oxen pulling the cart stumbled, Uzzah reached out to steady the Ark. Though his intention may have seemed good, this act violated the divine command that no one was to touch the Ark directly. God struck Uzzah dead on the spot as a consequence.

This story is often interpreted as a caution against unauthorized or unsanctified human attempts to act in the place of God. Despite Uzzah's apparent good intentions, his action overlooked God’s explicit instructions and presumed a human solution to a situation governed by divine authority. It can serve as a reminder of the importance of humility, reverence, and trust in God's ways, rather than relying on human intervention or innovation where God's guidance is clear.

I often reflect on the wobbly man-made structures that attract congregations with entertaining programs, and technology filled messages, and get a sense of caution because of what happens when there is conflict between Christians.

[unworthyservant]

I believe that was my first post when I was here before. Your comments on Uzzah are right on point. I'm back for another go around.

[timf]

It might be helpful to clarify what you mean by the "teachings"of Christ.

Jesus often spoke to Jews about the law. For example he told some who were healed to show themselves to the priest at the temple. Today if someone were healed from Hanson's disease, even if he wanted to, there are no more priests or temple.

Jesus also described what might be called universal principles. However, he also made statements such as being able to move mountains. It would be interesting to determine if the mountain moving were told to just the disciples, apply to all of the faithful remnant of Israel, or to all who would believe.

I see in the ministry of Jesus only the sincere offer of the kingdom to the nation of Israel. I do not get the feeling he winks at the disciples with a sort of hint that, "You guys are going to blow it, so here is the real plan".

I see a risk that one can find themselves taking out of the words of Jesus that which was intended for Israel and trying to introduce rules and works into Christianity today. This risks the dangers that beset the Galatians.

While the words of Jesus are the sacred words of God, we need to consider context so that we do not carelessly misapply them.

[enoob57]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, unworthyservant said:

I am new to this chat thing but I am here to discuss the teachings of Christ and how they apply to the present day and age. Personally I believe that the teachings of Christ should be taken literally and I find that every where I turn everyone is teaching everything but the teachings of Christ.

That is one of the first basic tenants of hermeneutics that the Bible is written literally unless common sense or implied by passage other... Number one rule 'if the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense' ... God's Scripture was written to all men in all times till the end... context rules the study always!

On 8/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, unworthyservant said:

Second he taught that we must put that faith into action by repenting of our sins and then live our lives according to God's law and Christ's teachings.

The most difficult thing in flesh warfare is the trying to justify ourselves by works as to being worthy to receive salvation... The motivation to love God, put there by The Holy Spirit, is the pure ascent to the reason of works
John 14:21 (KJV)

[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

When a person is saved- God's Places Himself within the inner man and life begins once more s/Spiritually... that life will be one of Love foremost unto God Himselves and then to others which fulfills all law...
Matthew 22:37 (KJV)

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

On 8/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, unworthyservant said:

Thirdly, he taught us exactly what was sin (the things we must turn away from) and then he taught the things we should do to worship God and the main focus was on using whatever God gives you to help those in need.

It is this simple: if love 'God's Love' fulfills the Scripture (above) then not to love is sin...

 

On 8/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, unworthyservant said:

So my question is why everyone seems to focus on all the side issues that have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ. For instance, I hear evangelical preachers preach hard and heavy about the evils of homosexuality and yet they say nothing about the members of their congregation who are divorced and remarried and thus living in sin.

Your focus seems to be on wrong motives law law law ... it was never given to save but to condemn 'all'!
Do to get is a devilish scheme driven into the heart of all who have began here... the overall teaching of Scripture is source and where that source is from
John 8:23 (KJV)

[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Thus, motive should not be anything of here but where we are going... wanting to love Jesus back with the love He has placed within us...
Galatians 5:18 (KJV)

[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

On 8/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, unworthyservant said:

That brings up another dilemma. That is what Christ taught about money. Christ spoke frequently about money, the accumulation of wealth, earthly treasures and how we should deal with our finances. In every instance he taught that we should not engage in the pursuit of worldly treasures or pleasures but rather if God blesses you with money, you should give it ALL to the poor in order to show God's love through your actions. Everywhere you look you see preachers getting rich through donations and the selling of books. They build themselves mansions and then brag about all the good work they are doing. Did Jesus teach his disciples  to go and preach in order to accumulate earthly wealth? NO! Just the opposite! He taught them to not accept monetary compensation for their work. During Christ's ministry the only thing that ever drove Him to anger was the time he confronted the money changers and sellers in the temple.

the monetary system of this world is basic lie... it convinces us that rocks (precious jewels), metal (gold, silver etc), paper (currency) is much more precious than food, which God supplies, and people are stealing, killing, lying and whatever else their imagination can do to obtain it ... what will it be like when the lie is removed and they see clearly this error?
Romans 14:11 (KJV)

[11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

[12] So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

On 8/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, unworthyservant said:

As you may have noticed, I could go on for hours but the question at the heart of the matter is are there others who see that the Churches have obscured the teachings of Christ to the point that the modern churches have strayed so far from His teachings that they hardly resemble anything that Christ taught about His church? Please let me know what you think and I'm happy to discuss anything pertaining to the teachings of Christ.

This is written of the last of days:
Matthew 24:7 (KJV)

[7] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

[8] All these are the beginning of sorrows.

[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

[enoob57]

56 minutes ago, timf said:

While the words of Jesus are the sacred words of God, we need to consider context so that we do not carelessly misapply them.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[unworthyservant]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The most difficult thing in flesh warfare is the trying to justify ourselves by works as to being worthy to receive salvation... The motivation to love God, put there by The Holy Spirit, is the pure ascent to the reason of works
John 14:21 (KJV)

I agree it's a conundrum and didn't mean to imply that we can "justify ourselves by works as to being worthy to receive salvation" but rather that Christ taught that the world could know our faith by our works as noted in Matthew 7:16-20, Matthew 12:33-37 and Luke 6:43-45.

 

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

I am curious. I see you quote the KJV version of Paul's list of "works of the flesh". I'm curious as to what you think of the idea that witchcraft is listed.

[timf]

I'm curious as to what you think of the idea that witchcraft is listed.

I have found the verse equating witchcraft and rebellion interesting;

1Sa_15:23  For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

My take away is that both rebellion and witchcraft are about trying to get what you want. This might be a characteristic of the flesh as well.

[unworthyservant]

11 hours ago, timf said:

Jesus often spoke to Jews about the law. For example he told some who were healed to show themselves to the priest at the temple. Today if someone were healed from Hanson's disease, even if he wanted to, there are no more priests or temple.

He told some who were healed to show themselves to the priest at the temple because Christ adhered to Old Testament Law, and I believe that we too should follow His example. I look at the example of healing as something that I'll deal with when I find myself in a position to be the recipient of such a healing or the conduit for the same. Otherwise, I think it serves as a reminder that Christ taught us that the Law would stand "Until heaven and earth pass away". His sacrifice on the cross did fulfill some of the law and the prophecies and He did clarify a couple of points in the law, such as lusting is committing adultery, calling another names in anger is just as damning as murder and that divorce did not mean one could remarry.

11 hours ago, timf said:

It would be interesting to determine if the mountain moving were told to just the disciples, apply to all of the faithful remnant of Israel, or to all who would believe.

I believe that the mountain moving was meant for every follower of Christ. It was geared to the disciples when they were unable to cast out a demon from a boy. He spoke of faith. "If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." I believe that Christ meant what He said for all of us. If we could only have that kind of faith, nothing would be impossible. I don't pretend to know what that faith would be, as I've never moved a mountain, but since Christ says it's possible, I believe it.

 

11 hours ago, timf said:

I see a risk that one can find themselves taking out of the words of Jesus that which was intended for Israel and trying to introduce rules and works into Christianity today.

What words do you believe were intended for Israel and not for us? You ask me to clarify what I mean by the "teachings" of Christ. I see the teachings of Christ as everything He said that relates to any situation that I may find myself in and believe His teachings are not only found in His words but in His actions.

[D. Adrien]

I also view sin as a parasite. Even the most righteous act by an individual will have the filthiness of sin somehow attached to it. Wrong motive, pride or hoping for personal gain financially and so forth. It's the sin nature within always seeking self exaltation.