Prosperity Gospel

[unworthyservant]

40 minutes ago, Willa said:

In contrast some like Billy Graham only lived off the profits of the books he sold, and those were at rock bottom prices.  He never asked for donations for himself and gave away many of the books.  

I told my cousin when we visited her that our church never asks for money, which is true.  She took me to her church that Sunday and was embarrassed to have her pastor ask all who wanted to be blest come forward and place money down on the stage.  Then he asked those who wanted a double blessing to come forward again and place more money on the stage.  Not only did the left hand know what the right hand was doing, the whole congregation watched while people came forward with their money.  Fleecing the flock.  Pastors above all should be setting the example of trusting our God to supply their needs and the needs of their church.  

You are correct, Billy Graham didn't solicit donations but he did pretty well for himself. At his death his net worth was estimated at $25 Million. There's another preacher out there these days (no names) who doesn't solicit donations and his net worth is estimated at $40-60 million. All earned through book and related sales as I hear it but given that the only thing that drove Christ to anger was the sellers and money changers who were profiting from selling things to worship God, I wonder what He would think of preachers who have amassed millions in personal wealth from sales of Christian books?

[unworthyservant]

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

P.S. God does NOT share His glory, so if they are selling Him, then they have their reward and coming punishment. Look at what a certain "evangelist" of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s did and made millions of dollars, and millions of false Christians. He even said there are many ways to God, not just Jesus, which contradicts Jesus' own words. Spoken words without faith and repentance is a lie. Their end state is worse than the beginning, which Peter says:

 

2 Peter 2:18-22
For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error.  They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.  For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.  For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.  What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” 

It even goes back at least to Billy Sunday, who, while he made nowhere near what the later ones did, still did pretty well for his time and was preaching a sort of prosperity gospel.

[saved34]

57 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

It even goes back at least to Billy Sunday, who, while he made nowhere near what the later ones did, still did pretty well for his time and was preaching a sort of prosperity gospel.

Oh man I never knew that about Billy Sunday. I knew he preached hard against alcohol but didn’t know he leaned anywhere near the prosperity gospel. It breaks your heart to see some of these wolves prey on congregations. 

[unworthyservant]

11 minutes ago, saved34 said:

Oh man I never knew that about Billy Sunday. I knew he preached hard against alcohol but didn’t know he leaned anywhere near the prosperity gospel. It breaks your heart to see some of these wolves prey on congregations. 

He doesn't seem nearly as blatant as modern preachers but there are clips on YouTube where he's at it pretty hot and heavy. The audio isn't great so a little speaker is a good thing to have if you want to check them out.

[Willa]

3 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

You are correct, Billy Graham didn't solicit donations but he did pretty well for himself. At his death his net worth was estimated at $25 Million. There's another preacher out there these days (no names) who doesn't solicit donations and his net worth is estimated at $40-60 million. All earned through book and related sales as I hear it but given that the only thing that drove Christ to anger was the sellers and money changers who were profiting from selling things to worship God, I wonder what He would think of preachers who have amassed millions in personal wealth from sales of Christian books?

The money changers were skimming and padding their own pockets.  That is what Jesus objected to in making His Fathers house a den of thieves.  It was not that they sold sacrifices but that they were dishonest in their dealings.  This is not true of Billy Graham and I don't think he was trying to amass all the money because he seemed to be quite generous.  Many people were saved and are still serving God as a result of his ministry.  He effected many more who respected him in spite of rejecting Christ.    I don't know concerning your unnamed preacher.  

[unworthyservant]

16 minutes ago, Willa said:

The money changers were skimming and padding their own pockets.  That is what Jesus objected to in making His Fathers house a den of thieves.  It was not that they sold sacrifices but that they were dishonest in their dealings.  This is not true of Billy Graham and I don't think he was trying to amass all the money because he seemed to be quite generous.  Many people were saved and are still serving God as a result of his ministry.  He effected many more who respected him in spite of rejecting Christ.    I don't know concerning your unnamed preacher.  

I didn't mean to imply that Billy Graham was dishonest in any way. I've heard that theory about the dishonesty of the temple sellers and since the Bible doesn't say it specifically, and I can't find anyone who has convincing enough evidence, I personally don't know if it's the case or not. I mention it because it was what drove Christ to anger. The point about Billy Graham and other millionaire preachers is that it seems that they have laid up for themselves quite the treasure on this earth. All I'm saying is that especially a preacher shouldn't amass millions of dollars of personal wealth when there's starving people right here in the US. It just seems to go against everything that Christ taught on the subject. Christ said "A rich man shall hardly enter the kingdom of heaven.". In my humble opinion, 25 million dollars is pretty rich. When Christ said "You cannot serve God and mammon", he was talking to us all, even if you are a preacher and have done a lot of good. When the rich ruler came to Jesus, He first told him to follow the commandments. When the young man indicated that he had indeed kept all the commandments from his youth, Christ didn't dispute that, he said "One thing you lack". The thing that he told him to do was sell all that he had and give the money to the poor. Only after he would do this could he follow Christ. We all know the story about how he couldn't do it. Christ taught that the way to show that we don't love money (or worship mammon) is if we are willing to give it up for the Gospel's sake.

[Willa]

We can't judge others. God knows their hearts.  I am sure if it was required of him to give it all to the the Lord, he would have.  I have known more poor people who were greedy for gain than middle income folks.  God doesn't require this of everyone--only those who love money.  You will never know which people are generous because they will give secretly.   Many go so far as to not deduct it all from taxes.  

[unworthyservant]

3 hours ago, maryjayne said:

Yes, he only took a modest salary for himself and all the millions he was worth were actually assets of his charity work. A wonderful man. Nearly 90% of the donations to Samaritans Purse went directly to giving. 

BTW, by the way, I checked and the numbers I quoted are personal net worth and have nothing to do with Samaritan's Purse of any other charity for that matter. He only took a modest salary of $15.000. That was in 1950 when $15,000 wasn't that modest. Per Forbes Magazine by 2005, his compensation just from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was a modest $450,000. My understanding is that most of the $25 million that he amassed in personal wealth was from book sales. 

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 hour ago, Willa said:

The money changers were skimming and padding their own pockets.  That is what Jesus objected to in making His Fathers house a den of thieves.  It was not that they sold sacrifices but that they were dishonest in their dealings.  This is not true of Billy Graham and I don't think he was trying to amass all the money because he seemed to be quite generous.  Many people were saved and are still serving God as a result of his ministry.  He effected many more who respected him in spite of rejecting Christ.    I don't know concerning your unnamed preacher.  

 

A preacher should never try to pressure or demand or threaten Hell- Fire-And-Damnation to this who do not give.Tithing is for those under Law.We ain’t.We are to give from the heart. Paul makes that clear in his writings.God is looking for “ cheerful givers”.Paul told the Galatians that we were to “ share materially with the man who brought you the Gospel”Nothing about tithing, Nothing declaring that tithing was before the Law and therefore has to be done today.Nothing.New Testament Christians went way beyond tithing- they gave everything they had- so there’s the standard if you insist upon one.Its not often that God makes a Promise that appeals to the Selfishness in a man . But God Promises that the more we give, the more we get.Some get it here- ALL get it at the Bema Seat. If you choose to drink in God’s Word down here and do not help the Spreaders of that Word financially, don’t expect much when it is your turn to go before Jesus.If I give 10% ( the true tithe was 25% AT LEAST) so what? JohnWesley gave 90% and lived on 10%. I wish I had that much faith! I do not. Should I expect to get the same reward as Mr. Wesley? I think not. We need to listen to Jesus, who said..... “ build your treasure in Heaven”.You don’t HAVE to give a penny to the work of God.Spend your Eternity broke.God has given us the choice.Soul- Winners will be greatly rewarded in Heaven.Support their ministries and share in their rewards .That is the true impetus in The Age Of Grace.Satan has had a great victory in the area of giving God’s way.So many “preachers” have been exposed, a lot of God’s men are afraid to open their mouths about giving, terrified that that they will be labeled “ crooks”.Those Preachers are doing their parishioners a severe disservice.They need to pray for the courage to teach to give God’s Way and damn the consequences .They and their congregations will be thankful when rewards are passed out.God bless

 

I forgot to mention this— do your giving in secret or you will forfeit your reward.

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

If you got people out there actually preaching a Gospel That will keep us and our LOVED ONES from an Eternity in Hell, I would think they should be the highest paid people on Earth. And nobody would have a problem with it .Paul was broke at times, other times he lived with abundance.The main thing he was CONTENT whether Living poor or living with plenty.