'Creationism' and 'Intelligent Design' are inherently NOT disciplines

[one.opinion]

13 hours ago, Paul James said:

If evolution is true, then there was no Adam, no sin, no fall, no Jesus dying on the cross, no resurrection, no new heaven and earth, therefore no gospel, and no hope of salvation, but hope only in this life, and when this life ends, nothing.

Evolution does not preclude these things, it is an entirely different matter. God could have created the diversity of life through evolution and still could have specially created Adam and Eve. Everything else you claim could not happen obviously could happen from that point onward.

[Paul James]

2 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Evolution does not preclude these things, it is an entirely different matter. God could have created the diversity of life through evolution and still could have specially created Adam and Eve. Everything else you claim could not happen obviously could happen from that point onward.

Evolution is an atheistic "religion" formed through rebellion against God.  The God of the Bible has no fellowship with atheistic darkness.  The god of this world (whom atheists worship) has blinded the minds of those who believe not lest they should see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:4).  Evolution is a demonic delusion that God sent to those who stoutly refuse to believe Him and His literal word (2 Thessalonians 2:11).

[one.opinion]

20 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Evolution is an atheistic "religion" formed through rebellion against God.

Evolution is the heritable change in a population over time and is directly observable. It is part of how God created and is in no way rebellion against God. There are implications of evolution, such as common descent, that cannot be directly observed, but that is still not rebellion against God.

There is no way to connect 2 Thessalonians 2:11 to evolution since the Bible never refers to evolution. There is not a single thing that is demonic about it.

 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Paul James said:

Evolution is an atheistic "religion" formed through rebellion against God.  The God of the Bible has no fellowship with atheistic darkness.  The god of this world (whom atheists worship) has blinded the minds of those who believe not lest they should see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:4).  Evolution is a demonic delusion that God sent to those who stoutly refuse to believe Him and His literal word (2 Thessalonians 2:11).

Seems unlikely, since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God.   Would you like to see that?

 

[Paul James]

On 5/17/2020 at 11:53 AM, The Barbarian said:

Seems unlikely, since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God.   Would you like to see that?

 

Darwin's grandfather was an avowed evolutionist and had a major influence on Darwin, so Darwin's theories are mainly his grandfather's philosophy adapted to his research.

Also Bishop Spong, the well known humanist liberal who doesn't believe in the historical Jesus, the virgin birth, or the resurrection of Christ, freely talks about God, Christ, and faith, and some can be deceived into thinking he is talking about the God of the Bible, Jesus of the Gospels, and genuine faith in both, when he is attributing quite different meanings to these words.

For instance, he believes that God is in everything, therefore he is pantheistic in his view of God.  He is talking about the Christ of faith, which can be any "Christ" one chooses to believe in without having to have any moral responsibility to a real Christ of the Gospels, and his faith is "faith in faith", or "if I believe it, then it is true for me".

Darwin was influenced by the liberal theologians in his day, who believed exactly the same as Bishop Spong.  So the "God" he is referring to is definitely not the God of the Bible.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Paul James

[The Barbarian]

Seems unlikely, since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God.   Would you like to see that?

7 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Darwin's grandfather was an avowed evolutionist and had a major influence on Darwin,

Seems unlikely, since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God.   And Erasmus was skeptical of religion.   Would you like to see that?

8 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Darwin's theories are mainly his grandfather's philosophy adapted to his research.

Except of course, Darwin's conclusion that God created the first living things, and natural selection, and the origin of atolls, and the effects of worms on soil, and all the other discoveries he did that his grandfather had no idea about.   C'mon.    Let's be real here.

It's a common misconception that Darwin discovered evolution.   Long before Darwin, scientists had realized that some kind of common descent must have occurred.   Darwin's great discovery was how it worked.

 

12 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Also Bishop Spong, the well known humanist liberal who doesn't believe in the historical Jesus, the virgin birth, or the resurrection of Christ, freely talks about God, Christ, and faith, and some can be deceived into thinking he is talking about the God of the Bible, Jesus of the Gospels, and genuine faith in both, when he is attributing quite different meanings to these words.

 

"And creationists, who don't accept God's creation or the actual message of Genesis can be deceived into thinking they are talking about the God of the Bible, Jesus of the Gospels and genuine faith in both when they are attributing quite different meanings to these words."

Fact, is, God doesn't care what you think of the way He created things.   You will be judged for other things.    But here's a message from a YE creationist, who is deeply concerned about the ideas you have just presented:

Ever since I affirmed that the evidence for evolution is reasonable and that evolutionary theory has not failed, I've been explaining ideas about science and evidence leading up to this post. After many years in this debate, I've come to the uncomfortable conclusion that we creationists have made an idol of our own arguments. I don't say this lightly or flippantly either. This is a deadly serious problem, and the conservative wing of Christianity desperately needs to address it.

http://toddcwood.blogspot.com/2009/11/nature-of-idolatry.html

 

 

[Paul James]

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Seems unlikely, since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God.   Would you like to see that?

Seems unlikely, since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God.   And Erasmus was skeptical of religion.   Would you like to see that?

Except of course, Darwin's conclusion that God created the first living things, and natural selection, and the origin of atolls, and the effects of worms on soil, and all the other discoveries he did that his grandfather had no idea about.   C'mon.    Let's be real here.

It's a common misconception that Darwin discovered evolution.   Long before Darwin, scientists had realized that some kind of common descent must have occurred.   Darwin's great discovery was how it worked.

 

 

"And creationists, who don't accept God's creation or the actual message of Genesis can be deceived into thinking they are talking about the God of the Bible, Jesus of the Gospels and genuine faith in both when they are attributing quite different meanings to these words."

Fact, is, God doesn't care what you think of the way He created things.   You will be judged for other things.    But here's a message from a YE creationist, who is deeply concerned about the ideas you have just presented:

Ever since I affirmed that the evidence for evolution is reasonable and that evolutionary theory has not failed, I've been explaining ideas about science and evidence leading up to this post. After many years in this debate, I've come to the uncomfortable conclusion that we creationists have made an idol of our own arguments. I don't say this lightly or flippantly either. This is a deadly serious problem, and the conservative wing of Christianity desperately needs to address it.

http://toddcwood.blogspot.com/2009/11/nature-of-idolatry.html

 

 

Of course, evolution is old news.  The ancient pagan Greeks were evolutionists.  Nothing new there.

The bottom line is that God's Word states that the universe and this world was created in 6 24hr days and through God speaking it into being, and, according to what He said to Job, spread out the universe Himself, instead of there being a big bang.   For me, I would rather accept what God says in His Word, than the fallible words of man that try to explain away the fact that God can create a whole universe in an instant of time during a 24hr day.

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, Paul James said:

The bottom line is that God's Word states that the universe and this world was created in 6 24hr days

No, that's your addition to God's word.   Since the text itself tells us that it's not a literal history, it's wrong to add "24 hours" to the allegory.

 

[Paul James]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

No, that's your addition to God's word.   Since the text itself tells us that it's not a literal history, it's wrong to add "24 hours" to the allegory.

 

who said it was an allegory.  Jesus didn't.  He treated it as real history.  You say it is an allegory, Jesus says it is real history.  I'd rather take the words of Jesus rather than that of fallible man who can't believe in an almighty god who can create a whole universe by just telling it exist in an instant of time.   You may need to confirm that your god is not just a figment of your imagination.

[one.opinion]

7 hours ago, Paul James said:

who said it was an allegory.  Jesus didn't.  He treated it as real history.

Jesus treated Adam and Eve as real history. That’s it. Consider what truly trusting Jesus’s words rather than man’s actually means in this context.