Do you stand with Israel?

[other one]

Luke 21:24

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

(KJV)

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Well, I guess that the times of the gentiles were fulfilled on June 30, 1967 and let the end times roll ......

[apothanein kerdos]

When was Israel deported and returned? They never returned from Assyrian captivity, instead they migrated further north. Likewise, when did Israel return to God spiritually? That has never happened since the captivity began.

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The 'second time' is directly referenced as the return from Babylon. As Jere the Prophet says 'Behold I will gather then out of all countries'.

Spritually, all of Israel who had heard and learned from the Father recognized Jesus as Messiah.

Normally I dont talk to antisemites like yourself, Im making a special effort just this once.

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"All nations"....Babylon is one nation and there is nothing in the Bible that would lead us to believe that Jeremiah is talking about the church.

[Guest shiloh357]

come against Jerusalem.

[10] "And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.

Quoting a favorite jewish writer:

John 19:34-37

34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

(KJV)

Yes, John applied that prophecy to the event of Christ's crucifixion. However there is another more complete application and that is when the Jewish people look upon Him in the last days. You obviously have a problem with Jews.

[Guest shiloh357]

come against Jerusalem.

[10] "And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.

Quoting a favorite jewish writer:

John 19:34-37

34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

(KJV)

Yes, John applied that prophecy to the event of Christ's crucifixion. However there is another more complete application and that is when the Jewish people look upon Him in the last days. You obviously have a problem with Jews.

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LOL lets see' It was me who quoted a jewish writer on this very passage. A jewish writer who happens to wear the Apostolic Miter. It is you making the calim the even thouhgh John, the jewish witer and Apostle state in th e clearest language;

36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled,

who is adding yet another fulfillment contrary to the Apostolic teaching. Thats one thing and bad enough. but then to use that as support for your imaginary racial problems borders on insanity. You're just used to being able to bully folks and get away with smearing anyone who disagrees.

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NO, I just have a lot of experience with those who use theology as a cloak for hate.

The fact remains that other commenatators see this as a partial fulfillment and not the ultimate fulfillment of the Zech. 12. The verse in Zechariah in context will be fulfilled in completion when the Messiah returns. You John by the Holy Spirit applied it one way, but there is another fulfillment as well.

Wesley writes:

They shall look on him whom they have pierced - He was pierced by the soldier's spear. They who have occasioned his sufferings by their sins (and who has not?) shall either look upon him in this world with penitential sorrow: or with terror, when he cometh in the clouds of heaven, Rev_1:7. Zec_12:10.

John Gill writes:

they shall look on him whom they pierced; in the Hebrew text it is, "upon me whom they have pierced"; the reason of this difference is, because Christ, who is Jehovah, is there speaking prophetically of himself, here the evangelist cites it as fulfilled in him, that is, that part of it which regards the piercing of him; for that of the Jews looking upon him and mourning is yet to be fulfilled, and will be at the time of their conversion in the latter day, and at the day of judgment. And as the piercing of the Messiah has been literally fulfilled in Jesus, there is reason to believe, though the Jews are to this day hardened against him, that that part of the prophecy which concerns their looking to him, and mourning for him on account of his being pierced by them, will also, in God's own time, be fulfilled.

Zechariah clearly delivers this verse 10 within the context of the last days, and that is not cancelled out by John. To assert such is just plain incorrect.

[Guest shiloh357]

What you have is a small clouded mind full of fear and hatred.

There is no fear or hatred coming from me. Rather it is those who seek to pervert the Word of God who hate to see Israel be blessed by God again.

So how many more Messiuahs will there be? 19 20? All you need is a commentator.

What does that have to do with anything?

All I have is the NT source writer. Try and find something there then you will have a argument with a base rehter than your tired worn o ut marytr complex.You look silly wearing it...

why not try and put two thoughts together that actually make sense enough that I can respond to it. Your spelling is awful and I cannot see the points you are trying to make. Everthing is disjointed.

Zech 12:10-11

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

(KJV)

What day was that? Why it must be the same time the prophecy was fulfilled.... ol Z uses this a lot

No, that is not necessarily the day that Zechariah is ultimately referring to. There is an ultimate fulfillment, and that is in the last days.

These verses are speaking of an Israel victorious over their enemies ,and restored in their own Land and then finding the Messiah. Dual fulfillment is not uncommon in Scripture. If you had any skill in handling the Scriptures, you would know that. Context is everything. John is right, and there is no contradiction except the one that you are trying to manufacture. The verses in their ultimate fulfillment do not match the gospel narrative point for point.

Zechariah 12 is speaking of Israel as a nation recognizing their Messiah and mourning for Him collectively in remorse for the one whom their ancestors pierced. That has not happened yet, and therefore, Zechariah 12:10-11 have not been fulfilled in the absolute sense.

It is to Israel of the last days that Zechariah says:

For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me. Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again. Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.

(Zechariah 2:8-13)

[halifaxchristian]

Shiloh...keep on defending the Chosen People. You are fighting the good fight.

God bless you.

[nebula]

Revelation 7

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: 5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed; 6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed; 7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed; 8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"

The 144,000 are of the tribes of Israel.

The great multitude is of the Gentiles.

See?