ReneeIW Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) There is a man who is very involved in the Christian community. He’s a pastor of a church that helps the homeless, he’s the chaplain of a major sports team, and he runs a ministry for inmates. People have said that if you find them in the street dying “call Jesus.” If Jesus is not available, then call the pastor I mentioned above. So this pastor has a stellar reputation. One day this pastor’s best friend, who is also a Christian leader, comes to him and says he’s having an affair with a young girl and has been abusive towards her and he’s afraid his family will find out and his reputation will be ruined in the Christian community. The Christian pastor travels and visits the young girl and threatens her life if she tells anyone about the affair. The young girl reports the threat to the church. Is sorry enough or should the pastor step down for committing the crime of threatening someone’s life? Should his whole life’s work be ruined for this one offense? What does the Bible mean when it says leaders should be above reproach? Does that verse apply here? Any thoughts? Edited September 23, 2019 by ReneeIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,597 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,063 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Yes, my thought is that I can't buy into the premise. As to the subject of sorry being enough for much of anything, it seems to me God has strongly suggested paying rather severe restitution for offenses, and has given out some very lethal punishment of His own to many. Is sorry enough for restitution as a leader given the gift of pastor. No, sorry doesn't seem to cut it. Some after failing to obey God's commands only get to see and not actually step foot on the promised land as example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Yes, my thought is that I can't buy into the premise. What can’t you buy into? The fact that it actually happened? A pastor threatening someone’s life? Or the question of whether a pastor should have to step down from his position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repose Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 205 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 231 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2019 I mean, is there sufficient evidence of this? Has he admitted to it? Caring for a friend, sure, but going after the girl seems irrational and against what would seem to be his prior principles. There are complex undertones in this scenario that would demand a close investigation. Everyone has the right to be assumed innocent until it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise. If he has done such a thing, yeah, maybe he could be removed from the pulpit. Whether he stays a member or not is debatable, but yeah, probably not in the pulpit. If it can't be proven and it does seem uncharacteristic, then the investigation would need to dig in as to why such an accusation was made. Whatever details turn up there would be another matter, and any and all future actions would depend on what's turned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lftc Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 536 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 323 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2019 Hello @ReneeIW , the topic you bring up here is very important on many levels. But highly controversial. If I am correct in my recollection, you are very interested in issues having to do with the rule of law. And you have gone through very difficult things yourself. This topic presents issues that could be offensive to you and others who identify with the young girl in the story. And the issues could be offensive to others who may identify with the public figure in the story. Is the story hypothetical, or is it a real story? There are principles presented in scripture that pertain to various levels of the situation, but the overriding principle is love. Acting in Love, one must tread carefully, especially if it is a real story. Care must be taken because there are several lives about to be destroyed in this story, if it is real. Love calls to me to care about all of them. So I will not present my thoughts, I would risk hurting those involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Repose said: I mean, is there sufficient evidence of this? Yes. This is a public figure so he could sue for defamation. He wasn’t going to lie and say he didn’t do it. He actual flew from New York to Chicago and did it. He apologized and that was it. He did have to resign from one Christian board he served on. Believe it or not, there is a video online of him and his friend acting out a scene in the Godfather. His friend is the Godfather sending him out on a mission. They are joking but still. I wish I was brave enough to post it, but then I would end up being judged. Edited September 23, 2019 by ReneeIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, lftc said: Is the story hypothetical, or is it a real story? It’s 100% real but it happened 20 years ago. Nothing is going to happen to the pastor who threatened. He is too well loved. He was asked to resign from one organization where he served on the board, but that was it. I’m trying to get a handle on why we don’t demand better from church leaders so that the church is a safe place for people. What does one have to do to get removed from leadership? The secular world demands the best. You are screened before you get a job and removed if you hurt someone. The church doesn’t seem to protect people in the same way. It is something I’m obsessed with. Sorry. Edited September 23, 2019 by ReneeIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovethelord Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 667 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 1,540 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2019 ReneeIW, 1 hour ago, ReneeIW said: Should his whole life’s work be ruined for this one offense? What does the Bible mean when it says leaders should be above reproach? Does that verse apply here? Any thoughts? I'm not surprised to hear this is a true story. My personal opinion is that this man knowing the Word of God should publicaly confess his sin to his congregation, his Elders and family and step down. This man is a Pastor in name only as his actions show that he is not Loving our Lord. Threatening the young girl is another evil action. He needs to sincerely repent and ask those involved for forgiveness. I know God will forgive him but he will have to own up to the consequences of his actions. A pastor is supposed to possess the character that goes well above anything that would require reproach from his church, family and the public. He should live in a way that would not bring shame to himself, family or his church. I believe the Bible says leaders should be above reproach is because his actions hurt the witness for the our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned by Grace Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 350 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2019 Hi Reenelw . You and I have posted replies to similar threads about abuse and leadership problems and even private messaged each other. After seeing you post other similar threads about leadership and abuse, and your own abuse by this same man it sounds like, I really think you need to quit your continuing posting about this and get some professional help. You seem to be caught up in a reoccuring cycle, and your not moving forward with a goal to put this behind you. You seem to be stuck, and still in pain and continually reliving the past. I really don't think you'll get the answers your looking for here, and I think you need professional help with other issues you personally have that you posted in other threads. Your my sister in Christ and I honestly believe at this point you should be working on yourself to get emotionally healthy. There are good Christian therapists who can help you deal with what has happened to you, and then discuss this pastor at some later date, and what you should do about him. I wish nothing but the very best for you and will keep you in my prayers - Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,597 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,063 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 hours ago, ReneeIW said: What can’t you buy into? The fact that it actually happened? A pastor threatening someone’s life? Or the question of whether a pastor should have to step down from his position? I have no idea from what was written whether it is presenting a hypothetical or if this believed to be the facts of a real situation. In either case; I don't buy into the scenario that one is not held responsible for one's actions, even if forgiven for the act in the first place. To my knowledge and based upon practical experience the local church body does not enforce criminal law, nor is it above it ( In the USA). In fact it is compelled by State laws and perhaps federal to report to law enforcement any violation similar to the one being written about. But even granting all the scenario to be correct and in a real situation no one in their right mind would reestablish the persons responsible back to the same ( or even similar) positions of responsibility, even after full forgiveness of them. For one thing the practical application would dictate not taking such a risk! Why the lawsuits from any repeat offense would bankrupt a church body and leave it's church officers personally responsible too. When God called us to Him He did not state to us park your brains somewhere and come with me. God forgives, He covers our sin, but he also holds us to account to follow His laws and precepts, as nations, as local bodies of Christ, and as individuals. So I do not buy into the idea that one will long ponder whether any person will be invited to tend to the church body, especially it's youth after a serious act of sin against them and against God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts