What Noah Could Have Said But Didn't

[Guest shiloh357]

NewPilgrim,

I think you will find it interesting what Paul said about himself in 1 Cor. 9:

24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul is talking about being castaway in the sense of being disqualified for service. Paul keeps his flesh under control, so that his life does not bring reproach upon the gospel. He wants his life and message to be in agreement, so that no one can accuse him of living a life contradictory to his message.

We know this is true because, in verse 24, Paul is is talking about a "prize" that we run to attain. Salvation is not being discussed, because Salvation is not a "prize." Salvation is a gift. A gift cannot be earned or won. Paul is running for a reward.

2 Cor. 5:

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Again, this is the same issue. Paul is talking about rewards. The judgement seat of Christ is for Christians. We will be judged for our deeds and rewarded accordingly. The judgement seat of Christ is not to determine who is saved or not. Those who stand at this judgement seat are saved.

It is the great white throne judgement that the sinners will appear before. Anyone standing at THAT judgement seat are doomed.

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How does God define that which is good?

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Hebrews 11:6)

Those that have done "good" are raised unto the resurrection of life. Not on the basis of works, but on the basis of faith. Those who have done good, are those whose works are the outworking of the faith and the principles of grace already implanted in them when they received Jesus as Lord and Savior. There are unsaved people who have done great works of charity and philanthropy. They have given their all to improve the world, they have travelled to the ends of the earth, feeding the poor, clothing the naked and standing up for the oppressed, but they will not, thought their works be good, be resurrected to the resurrection of life. Only those whose faith was in Christ, will enter the Kingdom of God.

2 Cor. 6:17-7:1

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

C.I. Scofield says it better than I can:

"The reward of separation is the full manifestation of the divine fatherhood, (2Co 6:17); (2Co 6:18), unhindered communion and worship, (Heb 13:13-15), and fruitful service, (2Ti 2:21), as world-conformity involves the loss of these, though not of salvation. Here, as in all else, Christ is the model. He was "holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners", (Heb 7:26), and yet in such contact with them for their salvation that the Pharisees, who illustrate the mechanical and ascetic conception of separation"

Rom. 2:

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

I can only repeat what I have said earlier about this passage which you already posted once. Here is what I said earlier, and in truth it is related to what was said concerning John 5:28,29.

This is not saying that salvation will be granted to them that do good. Notice v. 7

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:

(Romans 2:7)

These are Christians. They are (as John Gill says) "those who have had the principles of grace implanted in them." It is they who are living out the grace of God already at work within them. They have already received eternal life. Their lives are a demonstration of the salvation already present within them, and God will reward them accordingly.

1 Pet. 1:

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

In fear of what? In fear of losing your salvation? That is not the sense the apostle is trying to communicate. We should live in Godly fear of the Lord. He stands as our judge. We will one day give an account of our lives at the judgement seat of Christ for the deeds we have done. Peter is telling us to live lives that God can approve of.

He is not telling us to live in fear of not receiving eternal life. Eternal life is a present day possession, not something we have to wait and find out if we have received or not, after we die. We have a "know-so" salvation. I know right now based upon the Scriptures, that I have eternal life, now. I am not working to attain it. It is already mine. Perhaps you do not have that assurance, Fisher Of Men. If not, then you are probably not born again. All of us who are born again, know it, and we know that if we were to die this very instant, we would be with Jesus. We have that assurance based upon John 5:24, and 1 John 5:13. We also have been sealed by the Holy Spirit who is the earnest, the down payment on our inheritance.

1. Heb. 4:

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2. Rom. 11:

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

1. As to the verse in Hebrews: (A) "Let us therefore fear..." John Gill says it best:

"Not with a fear of wrath and damnation; nor with a fear of diffidence and distrust of the power, grace, and goodness of God; but with a cautious fear, a godly jealousy, a careful circumspection, and watchfulness:"

(B) "...any of you seem to come short of it." Again, I defer to wiser men than myself: Albert Barnes writes the following:

"This verse teaches the important truth that, though heaven is offered to us, and that a

[irishcowboy]

our works have nothing to do with whether or not we see the Kingdom of God,

our rewards are based on our works, not our salvation.....

with our salvation we will want to do the works, ( we will be known by our fruit )...

Salvation is a total gift, not earned, not bought, not anything but received by us, given us by God, thru the Christ.... Jesus.....

if we could do it with works, then Jesus wasted His time and life here on earth....

the Bible says..... that He is the Truth, ( Jesus ) , the Light, and the Way...... no one will see the Father except thru Me ( Jesus, the Son )...... not thru mike, not thru Teresa, not thru George, or fred, or mary, or adam or eve, or paul, or harold, but thru Jesus.....

those that do not have Christ, as their Lord, are lost, those that do, are saved.

if it was by works, the thief on the cross ( both of them, not just one ) would have been lost, for there was no time for the one to have done any works for the Lord.

there will be those that will say that they have done this, that and other in the name of Jesus, but Christ, Jesus, will reject them, for he knows them not...... works? they willl have lots of works, but not Christ as their Lord.... even thou they claim the works in His Name.....

our works come thru the faith, of the Lord..... as far as Noah, there were no "Christians" back then..... Noah's works came thru his faith in the Lord God....

Works are necessary for our lives, one that says i have faith in the Lord and does no work is just plain lazy, and will receive their rewards accordingly.....

if Noah, did not work on his faith, even thou he knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Lord was going to judge the world, Noah would have also been destroyed.

why? cause he then would have turned away from the Lord. Noah works were a sign of his faith.... his faith was not a sign of his works......

the workers in the field, some hired in the morning, some at noon, some mid afternoon, some just an hour before knock off...... they all received the same pay,

one that has taken Christ as their Lord early in life, and those that have done son mid life and those later, and even those in the twighlight years, and even minutes before death, if they take Christ as their Lord, they have the same pay..... enterance into Heaven..... their rewards will be dished out accordingly.....

mike

[tsth]

Our works are through the working power of Jesus Christ displayed, but if we do not "take up" the cross of Christ, have we really believed in His Power at all? I do not place the blame of my sin on Him any longer, but I proclaim the glory of His Power to work in me, lest I insult the Spirit of His Grace. Fisher of Men has not once denied Jesus Christ in what he has posted.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me."

2 Timothy 2:1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. 3 You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier. 5 And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules. 6 The hard-working farmer must be first to partake of the crops. 7 Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things.

8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained.

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shiloh357]

Fisher of Men has not once denied Jesus Christ in what he has posted.

Suzzane, what he has denied is the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice by claiming that we are not saved by Christ alone. He is saying that works are essential to salvation and that is unbiblical, and does great violence to the Word of God.

No one is saying that works are not necessary, but they are a demonstration of faith, and are not slavific. If we have to have works to be saved, then salvation is not a gift. To deny the full sufficiency of Christ's work on the cross by claiming that works must be added to it, , is simply false doctrine.

[tsth]

Fisher of Men has not once denied Jesus Christ in what he has posted.

Suzzane, what he has denied is the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice by claiming that we are not saved by Christ alone. He is saying that works are essential to salvation and that is unbiblical, and does great violence to the Word of God.

No one is saying that works are not necessary, but they are a demonstration of faith, and are not slavific. If we have to have works to be saved, then salvation is not a gift. To deny the full sufficiency of Christ's work on the cross by claiming that works must be added to it, , is simply false doctrine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are misunderstanding what he is saying. He is proclaiming the working power of His Grace that can only be displayed in our works, that we/he is not boasting of ourselves, but of Christ Jesus in us, unless we deny that power and thereby do not do the works that are necessary.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shiloh357]

You are misunderstanding what he is saying.

No Suzzanne, I am sorry, but you are the one who misunderstands. Here is what he is proclaiming in this thread.

We should all ask ourselves; Will my work on my own salvation be successful? Will I inherit that for which I was called (saved) to inherit?

Dear reader, do not allow yourself to be robbed of being accounted worthy of that life and the resurrection by the many false teachers who have departed from the faith and who would like you to also be persuaded that your ultimate salvation is not determined by what you do (your works).

He is teaching that works are necessary to gain eternal life. He is also proclaims the same thing in the OP of the other thread entitled "Not by works, Really?":

[tsth]

Do we reap what we sow?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[HILL]

Fisher of Men has not once denied Jesus Christ in what he has posted.

Suzzane, what he has denied is the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice by claiming that we are not saved by Christ alone. He is saying that works are essential to salvation and that is unbiblical, and does great violence to the Word of God.

No one is saying that works are not necessary, but they are a demonstration of faith, and are not slavific. If we have to have works to be saved, then salvation is not a gift. To deny the full sufficiency of Christ's work on the cross by claiming that works must be added to it, , is simply false doctrine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are misunderstanding what he is saying. He is proclaiming the working power of His Grace that can only be displayed in our works, that we/he is not boasting of ourselves, but of Christ Jesus in us, unless we deny that power and thereby do not do the works that are necessary.

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen Suzanne!

[Guest shiloh357]

Do we reap what we sow? 

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suzzanne, that is beside the point. Reaping what we sow applies to this life. We reap the consequences of sin in this life. Boys and girls who sow sexual immorality reap HIV, unwanted pregnancies. People who sow bad nutrition reap heart disease, high cholestorol. Those who sow crime, reap Prison.

Eternal life is a gift of grace, not a reward for our service here on earth. There so work we can do that will make us worthy of eternal life. We reap eternal life by sowing to the Spirit. Sowing to the Spirit is not works-based, but is faith-based. We reap eternal life by placing our faith in Christ. The works we do, are expressions of the faith we possess and the principles of grace that have been implanted in our heart by the Lord.

Fisher of Men is simply wrong, and so are you, if you are buying into the snake oil he is peddling.

[Kabowd]

Do we reap what we sow?